I've seen various statements that "The 2008 code will require AFCIs on all 15- and 20-amp residential circuits." Has that actually been approved and we're stuck with it, or is it just a request from the AFCI mfgs' marketing departments that's likely to be rejected further down the code-making process?

The NEC committees have accepted the proposals... you can download the proposalls here, and from other sites.

This is the comment period- the time to, perhapes, persuade the committee members to change their votes.

One thing to consider. These things run warm to the touch. What will be the impact of 20 of them in a panel in a Florida or Arizona garage in the summer?

It will be fine, you will just have to purchase $$$ the fan forced cooling accessory for the panel and put up with noise like a Nutone Bath Fan.

But on the plus side you won't need to heat the utility room.

Just add $ 500 to the cost of every house that gets wired. Not counting the call backs for nuisance tripping and the fact that multiwire brach curcuits will be history.
I believe that if this product is so wonderful that customers would demand it and the insurance company would cut your premiums in half for having them installed.
( It all started with bubble covers.)
Put it in the Code to sell the product.
Alan--
Send a Comment Form to NFPA to stop the madness.

Alan, you are far too optomistic...

Almost every new house uses at least 25 breakers. A standard breaker might cost $4, while the AFCI ones are easily $35.
25 x 4 = $100 in breakers.
25 x 35 = $875 in breakers.

That does not take into account the additional troubleshooting, or other complications.

One member of the panel in his negative vote comment estimated that the cost per year for new home construction would add if this were adopted 2 BILLION dollars.
He then used NFPA numbers concerning fires to show that it would possibly prevent less than 50 MILLION dollars in damage.
The CPSC wanted AFCIs in all residential buildings not just new ones but the panel stopped that move in the 2005 Code.
Alan--

Alan
It didn't start with the bubble covers, go back to '70 or thereabouts and the requirement for full size ground wires in #12 & 10 romex, then lately this business of grounded switch yokes helped pay the likes of Leviton and Cooper and others to move their factories South & Far East and retool. How many switches have you EVER encountered that failed in service & made the yoke hot?Plleeeaase! Of course, the "industry representitatives" on the code making committees steer the document in the direction of more business for the industries. Been watching this process for 39 years, Klein should stick to making the finest pliers and screwdrivers in the world, Greenlee should stick to making the finest ko punches and accessories available, do we really need racing stripes on the handles of $ 26 dykes, we don't need multinational conglomerates lobbying for code regulations that place good wiring out of the reach of most homeowners. Just how many fires are arc fault breakers claiming to prevent?

Code changes go through the following steps before becoming law:
1- proposal made
2- proposal accepted
3- comments sought
4- comments considered
5- proposal finalised
6- proposed code submitted to vote at convention
7- code published
8- code accepted by AHJ

The AFCI proposal is at "Step 4" right now.

My own proposal on the subject was rejected, as more assertion than data. Fair enough. The committee and I will continue to have major differences in opinion on this subject.

As in the past, I expect the next major hurdle to be a "Step 8" ... that local jurisdictions will not accept that part of the NEC.

See this thread for more comments.....

http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=83968

I just installed five GE AFCI on my 1966 house with success. I also installed GFCI on every branch except the fridge, so that 90% of the house is covered by both.

The back room that was once a garage had faulty wiring with splices everywhere. The GFCI did not work on that and I had to run new wire from the panel to the new receptacles, because there wasn't enough wire to change the receptacles.

So far I have used a 15 miter saw, 15 amp air compressor and 13 amp shop vac on the new AFCI, GFCI breakers, receptacles.

I like the concept. I was able to identify and troubleshoot the problem areas, with out having to rewire the entire house right now.

I don't understand how the bedrooms are more important than the kitchen and living room that gets warn out from use? Perhaps some people in old houses are using space heaters, so they are forcing this on new construction? My 40 year old bedroom electricity is fine, while the living room and kitchen were warn out from use.

(please don't chop up my post to take issue with one aspect)

I had my first nuissance trip of an AFCI this week. 100W bulb blew on a garage door opener, FLASH, click, room goes black. Panel was right beside the light switch, so diagnosis was easy. Aren't they supposed to only blow if it's something like a 60A arcing fault?

Anyhow, I got this house in just before the code change- the bedroom lights share the circuit, three AFCIs total in the house. And one was defective out of the box. Really gives me a nice warm/fuzzy on the technology, ya know?

John, it's not so much to protect people in bedrooms using space heaters. It's to protect people using extension cords that frequently get covered under clothing items or pinched under furniture legs. That won't really matter when the new code changes take effect, since nearly every residential circuit will require AFCI protection.

Not to mention, new houses will eventually become old.

Ed,

That is fine, but the currently available AFCI does not provide protection from those types of problems. The "combination" type that is required starting 1/1/08 is said to provide that type of protection.

When Harvey Johnson from C/H was selling me on this AFCI deal he was working on in the early 90s, the scenario they were using for the fault this catches was a lamp cord, behind the bed, buried in dust bunnies gets crushed when they move the bed. It arcs and starts a fire in the fuzz before it trips a breaker. That made sense to me. The 1999 proposal for AFCIs on bedroom receptacles made sense. It got silly when they finally adopted it in 2002 and it picked up the ceiling light and smoke detector.
Everything after that borders on insanity, particularly since the device old Harv described in 1994 still doesn't seem to exist. The goal was always parallel and series arcs. The parallel arc was easy, he was working on the series arc then. They still seem to be having problems with a series arc being detected without nuisance tripping.

Greg, you've hit on my cause for reservations ... unkempt promises, and the feeling that you've had a 'bait and switch' pulled on you.

Bedrooms-but-not-rest-of-house make sense if you look at this as a life-justified cost as oposed to economics. The original code in 2002 required AFCI in bedrooms, because the risk to life is a LOT higher if a fire starts in a room where someone is sleeping.

If a homeowner drives a nail through a wire in the wall, or if the insulation is torn by a staple during insulation, it may not immediately short, but may short sometime down the road. The risk of this is exceedingly small, and the cost is high- it's not cost justified- it's cheaper to replace the houses that burn down than to install all these AFCIs.

Who can put a price on a life, though? If this technology prevents 1 fatal fire over the next 50 years, does that justify the millions of dollars spend and numerous nuisance trips of AFCIs? The 2002 code was restricted, and still didn't eliminate the risk as it only applied to outlets, and not all the other cables passing through the walls, or cables on the stairs or other exit routes, etc.

I doubt AFCI will save the # of lives GFCI does, but it will undoubtedly save some.

Steve,
While a lot of deaths occured in the bedroom, many of these were from fires that had a point of origin outside of the bedroom.

As near as I can tell, the text in 210.12(B] does not require 120V kitchen, bathroom, garage and unfinished basement circuits to have AFCI protection.
Anyone know if this is correct?
Why is it these locations were not specifically mentioned in this article.

I feel the added cost for the 2008 AFCI requirements could be better spent elsewhere to reduce the number of fatalities and fires. It should have been left up to the insurance agencies and the loan underwriters. Install AFCI's, get a reduced rate or rebate. You think they will give a break on insurance now?

KJay, that's correct. Per 210.12(B), AFCIs do no appear to be required anywhere where a GFCI is already required. Not sure the rationale here.