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Residential Service ca. 1960 #152609
11/05/05 12:32 PM
11/05/05 12:32 PM
Admin  Offline
OP
Administrator
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,498
NY, USA
Quote
Here are some pictures I took while on vacation in Minnesota. The house was built in 1927. The service was upgraded, I think, in the late '50s-early '60s.

Look at the second photo, and what do you see?

--yaktx
[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Tools for Electricians:
Re: Residential Service ca. 1960 #152610
11/05/05 02:24 PM
11/05/05 02:24 PM
C
chipmunk  Offline
Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 144
Southampton, UK
Judging by the 'keyhole' mounting hole there, the panel was installed upside down. Neat work though. Are (or were) yellow phase conductors usual for some reason in the area, or is it a case of 'what the guy had on the van'.

I'd have been a little worried about 'yellowing' of the white wires causing phase and neutral to appear similar.

Re: Residential Service ca. 1960 #152611
11/05/05 02:48 PM
11/05/05 02:48 PM
R
royal12136  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 20
Shasta Lake, CA USA
Double tapping on the left side?

Re: Residential Service ca. 1960 #152612
11/05/05 04:20 PM
11/05/05 04:20 PM
S
sierra electrician  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 219
North Fork, CA USA
The cover is missing?

Re: Residential Service ca. 1960 #152613
11/05/05 04:44 PM
11/05/05 04:44 PM
R
Redsy  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,056
Bucks County PA
A second view of the first picture?

Re: Residential Service ca. 1960 #152614
11/05/05 05:03 PM
11/05/05 05:03 PM
Y
yaktx  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 288
Austin, Texas, USA
According to the NEC, it is perfectly acceptable to use whatever color you have on the truck for an ungrounded conductor, as long as it is not white, gray, or green. There is an additional restriction on orange, which must be and may only be used on the 208V-to-ground leg of a four-wire delta, if such a system exists on the premises.

Many jurisdictions, including my own, are more restrictive.

Yes, there is double-lugging going on in here. That might have been legal at the time.

For the ungrounded branch circuit conductors, I see three colors: yellow, orange, purple, and another color which is debatable. Is it blue? Gray? Green? My wife voted for teal. It looked green enough to me that I wouldn't have used it for a phase.

The question is, if it is green: Is this grandfathered?

Re: Residential Service ca. 1960 #152615
11/05/05 06:00 PM
11/05/05 06:00 PM
S
stamcon  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 330
So San Francisco CA
The installed fuses look like they say "type S" (fusestat), but the spares sitting on top are standard edison based. They better get some proper spares.


Steve
Re: Residential Service ca. 1960 #152616
11/05/05 06:52 PM
11/05/05 06:52 PM
G
georgestolz  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 91
Fort Collins, CO, US
Quote
Yaktx wrote:
There is an additional restriction on orange, which must be and may only be used on the 208V-to-ground leg of a four-wire delta, if such a system exists on the premises.

Orange is not forbidden to be on other phases and systems. 480V systems are typically Brown, Orange, Yellow.

You could mark all three conductors orange in a midpoint-grounded delta system. It just wouldn't be very helpful. [Linked Image]


-George
Re: Residential Service ca. 1960 #152617
11/05/05 11:19 PM
11/05/05 11:19 PM
Y
yaktx  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 288
Austin, Texas, USA
Every panel with Type S adapters has a few Edison base fuses laying around nearby. People buy the wrong thing, and never get around to getting rid of it once they figure out it won't fit.

Re: Residential Service ca. 1960 #152618
11/05/05 11:30 PM
11/05/05 11:30 PM
Y
yaktx  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 288
Austin, Texas, USA
Just George wrote: "You could mark all three conductors orange in a midpoint-grounded delta system. It just wouldn't be very helpful."

Well, I just looked it up, and my previous statement was not exactly correct. 110.15 states that "only the conductor or busbar having the higher phase voltage to ground shall be durably and permanently marked by an outer finish that is orange in color or by other effective means". I thought I remembered learning that this meant orange couldn't be used anywhere else in the building, but it says only within the system.

Orange is typically used in 480V systems, because buildings with such systems rarely if ever also have a four-wire delta system, and therefore there is no potential for confusion.

Here in my area, orange is absolutely forbidden except in this one area of application. Around here this type of service is fairly common, in contrast to some areas.

If you have a single-phase service, and you are in an area with no local restrictions, you may certainly use orange, as seen here.

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