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#142180 12/16/04 04:56 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,520
P
pauluk Offline OP
Member
Like most of us here in the U.K., I've been pondering over Part P quite a bit recently. Here's a point I've not seen mentioned yet.

Under English law (not sure about Scotland) a mobile home is not classed as a building, so long as it falls within certain criteria (maximum length and width, no more than two sections which are capable of being transported, etc.). Even quite sizable double-wide mobile homes (the "park home" type) are therefore officially classed as a caravan under English law.

So, as Part P is incorporated into the Building Regulations, presumably it does not apply to caravans, or mobile homes as legally these are not buildings. I asuume, therefore, that everybody will still be free to carry out any wiring they like on mobile homes as at present.

Any thoughts on this?

#142181 12/16/04 07:43 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 200
U
Member
This is just a very quick and unresearched response Paul, but Yes, I would say that they will qualify under most circumstances.

Although not written, as far as I can see, they are implied static domicilaries, and require planning permission for the most part. The question really arises over whether they are fed from hook-ups not classified as fixed or permanent supplies, or fixed services...

As I say - not entirely sure, but that's my quick thoughts!

Oh...spelling...spelling... [Linked Image]

[This message has been edited by uksparky (edited 12-16-2004).]


If hindsight were foresight, we'd all be millionaires!
#142182 12/18/04 08:42 AM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,520
P
pauluk Offline OP
Member
Quote
Yes, I would say that they will qualify under most circumstances.
John,

Not sure which way you meant that. Do you mean yes, they will qualify as being covered by part P, or yes, they qualify as being outside its scope?

Mobile homes may be classed as permanent residences, or dwellings, or whatever the legal terminology is, but they are definitely not buildings in the legal sense of the word. Planning permission depends very much upon the use to which the unit is put. There is no actual requirement to obtain planning consent to physically locate a mobile home on a piece of land. It is the use to which it is put which requires it. (For example, I found out a while ago that if you have a piece of land on which an old house is demolished, the council cannot actually stop you from setting up a mobile home on that land, because the land is already zoned as residential).

The existing requirements of the Building Regs. do not apply to caravans/mobile homes, so my reasoning is that Part P will not be applicable to them either.

I realize that the question is pretty ,uch academic. It seems clear by now that the whole shambles of Part P will be impossible to enforce anyway, even on houses which definitely are covered by it. But it's fun to poke holes in official rules, don't ya think?! [Linked Image] [Linked Image]

#142183 12/18/04 11:38 AM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 200
U
Member
Quote
But it's fun to poke holes in official rules, don't ya think?!

Oh I do, I do, I do! [Linked Image]

If they are used for residential purposes then as far as I can see they will be covered by PP - especially as they are covered by planning regulations.

I'll try and find out what our local lot have to say about it - but as they still can't answer questions about PP, I don't hold up much hope! [Linked Image]


If hindsight were foresight, we'd all be millionaires!
#142184 12/18/04 12:46 PM
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 8,423
Likes: 3
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Paul,
That's a rather valid and interesting point you bring up.
Over here, caravans and motor-homes are classed as "Connectable Installations".
Bear in mind that some caravans have switch-boards in them and others don't.
Before a caravan can be connected to a power supply here, it must have a current Electrical Warrant of Fitness, issued by an Electrical Inspector.
Also, bearing in mind that some motor-homes also use a Dual-Voltage system, a muck-up in the wiring system could be catastrophic!.
To be honest, I've never wired a caravan or motor-home, but I have tested and repaired a lot of them in the past.
To my way of thinking (however rather simplistically though), shouldn't a caravan really be regarded as an oversized appliance, like a big toaster, after all you still plug it in before you use it, don't you?. [Linked Image]

#142185 12/18/04 06:21 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 200
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Paul; had a word with local council brainbox earlier this evening; the only one who seems to have any idea what electricity is, never mind PP...

His wisdom was that it will depend on the amount of time the MH is likely to be occupied in a year, and what it is listed as under the planning application. If it is listed as a dwelling ( however temporary ) it will fall into the category requiring T&I. If it is not listed as a dwelling ( eg a holiday caravan ), but is occupied more than 30 days in any twelve months overnight it will require T&I. He thought 30 days was the amount, but said it could be 60... This applies to static vans - ie those that cannot be towed, only trucked.

He then went on to say that he accepted no liability for what he'd said! [Linked Image]

Make of it what you will!!! [Linked Image]

Oh, and I forgot to add that this only applies to structures that are fully permanently wired for mains voltage with a CCU on board. If you're just plugging in for lights - no CCU etc - it matters not one jot. [Linked Image]

[This message has been edited by uksparky (edited 12-18-2004).]


If hindsight were foresight, we'd all be millionaires!
#142186 12/19/04 10:21 AM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,520
P
pauluk Offline OP
Member
Quote
If it is listed as a dwelling ( however temporary ) it will fall into the category requiring T&I. If it is not listed as a dwelling ( eg a holiday caravan ), but is occupied more than 30 days in any twelve months overnight it will require T&I.
Sheesh! These council people must be insane. [Linked Image] Do they really believe that could be enforced? How are they going to know whether a holiday home is occupied more than 30 days a year? We don't clock in and out!

It's rather like the "Holiday occupation" restriction which still exists on some of the houses in my little settlement. How does the council know how long someone is here? (And frankly, it's none of their business anyway: As far as I'm concerned a person has every right to be on his own property for as long and as often as he likes. [Linked Image] )

It would be interesting to know exactly how your building guy came up with these time limits as well. They sound suspiciously like the local council's idea of what they would like to see enforced. If it's not in the law though, there's nothing they can do about it.

It might be worth writing my local building dept. again and asking what their view is on this matter. Considering that we have quite a lot of holiday caravans in this area (one site about 300 yards from me) you'd think they would have considered this. I won't bet on it though!

Quote
To my way of thinking (however rather simplistically though), shouldn't a caravan really be regarded as an oversized appliance, like a big toaster, after all you still plug it in before you use it, don't you?.
Well, a touring caravan (travel trailer to our U.S. friends), yes. I don't see how part P could apply to one at all, since it's clearly a vehicle, not a building.

But what about the "park home" type, sited permanently and hardwired to the supply? In English law, it is still officially classed as a caravan.



[This message has been edited by pauluk (edited 12-19-2004).]

#142187 12/20/04 07:23 PM
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 8,423
Likes: 3
Member
Well,
Having gone that far, how will those people that use Refrigeration plants on Trucks get on?.
I may be comparing apples to banana's here though.

#142188 01/06/05 05:17 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,520
P
pauluk Offline OP
Member
Among the other questions I posed to my local building dept. I asked about mobile homes as well. Here's North Norfolk's interpretation of it:
Quote
Regarding mobile homes, if they fall within the definition of a caravan under the 1960 or 1968 Acts, then they are exempt from the control of the Building Regulations including any associated electrical work.
The 1960/1968 acts allow quite generous sizes for a caravan to still be classed as such (about 60 by 20 ft. if I recall correctly), so most double-wide "park homes" are clearly included.

So there you have it: If you want to still be able to legally carry out DIY wiring without notification and inspection, move to a trailer park! [Linked Image]

[This message has been edited by pauluk (edited 01-06-2005).]

#142189 01/06/05 08:51 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 200
U
Member
PAUL...........DUCK!!!!!!!!!!


Otherwise you'll get hit by that low-flying amendment!! [Linked Image]


If hindsight were foresight, we'd all be millionaires!
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