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Re: Grounding Electrode Conductor Connector? #14021 09/25/02 04:23 PM
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,236
sparky66wv Offline OP
Member
Well, it was just the loophole of no mention of the "stand alone" 1/4" KO in the UL report that leaves a little to subjectivity...

Boy what a can of worms!


-Virgil
Residential/Commercial Inspector
5 Star Inspections
Member IAEI
Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades
Re: Grounding Electrode Conductor Connector? #14022 12/01/06 09:44 AM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 5
P
PAbernathy Offline
Junior Member
The 1/4" hole has an intended use by the manufacturer...use it for the GEC and you are fine.

it is NOT a weep hole......plain and simple!

The bonding of the service panel takes place at the buss bar and not at the connector bringing in the GEC.....

Weep holes should be WEEP HOLES as that should go without saying....weep holes are VERY different than the KO that MUST be removed next to the SE KO's in the panel.

If the manufacturer states their use...then use it...thats MY opinion !


Paul W. Abernathy,CME,RMS
Electrical Contractor
NEC Instructor
Re: Grounding Electrode Conductor Connector? #14023 12/01/06 10:12 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
renosteinke Offline
Cat Servant
Member
I have a different take on thes tiny KO's.

I believe they are intended for the phone, cable, and satellite guys, so that they can ground their stuff.

Naturally, I have never seen that done; it seems that their employers forbid them to open the panel, and rahter have than clamp onto any handy piece of pipe.

Re: Grounding Electrode Conductor Connector? #14024 12/01/06 10:23 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,374
R
Ryan_J Offline
Moderator
Reno, your thoughts violate 250.94, as it requires an external bonding location.

I talked with a Sqaure D tech support guy, and got it in writing that the little hole is for the GEC.


Ryan Jackson,
Salt Lake City
Re: Grounding Electrode Conductor Connector? #14025 12/01/06 01:23 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
renosteinke Offline
Cat Servant
Member
Thanks, Ryan ... for both the correction, and the info!

Re: Grounding Electrode Conductor Connector? #14026 12/01/06 02:07 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,394
G
gfretwell Online Content
Member
Reno, this is one reason I like a driven rod, adjacent to the utility entry. Even if you have other robust grounding electrodes the rod gives the cable co, telco and satellite guys a good, unambiguous, place to bond their entry protectors.
If I see the other utilities driving rods I make sure they get bonded to the service GES.
Sometimes you have to fight with the telco droid about this. They don't believe the electrical inspector can tell them anything.
Usually a call to the telco engineering department fixes this.


Greg Fretwell
Re: Grounding Electrode Conductor Connector? #14027 12/01/06 04:13 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 5
P
PAbernathy Offline
Junior Member
Joe,

Please look again at the statement of the Mark Ode...I will highlight in BOLD the issues I see with that statement.

1.) Mr. Ode Stated :A weep hole or drain hole, usually located in each corner of the
enclosure must be left open and not used for a No. 4 grounding electrode
conductor, even though it fits extremely well.

My response- Which holes would he be looking at...I dont see a # 4 AWG fitting in a true WEEP HOLE.

2.) Mr. Ode's statement: "There are some panels that have the corner drain holes with an additional
small knockout inside of a larger knockout where either the small knockout
can be removed and a No. 4 inserted into the hole or the larger knockout
can be removed with a connector installed and then the No. 4 inserted into
the connector and tightened down. These knockouts were installed so that
the user would not hopefully feel the need to use the weep holes for this
purpose.

My response is : within his statement he is saying two things.....that weep holes have knockouts in them...which I dont agree with...and they can be used.....

I will assume he is refering to the smaller KO designed for the GEC....not for WEEP HOLES....his statement is very back and forth and not very clear......

You cant say you can't use weep holes and then say a weep hole has a knockout in it...and if the larger inside is removed use it.....weep holes are not to be used in this manner regardless.....the small 1/4" type hole near the SE cable enterance at the bottom or top is not a weep hole....it is put their by the manufacturer for the GEC.

The small WEEP holes are in the corners as Mr. Ode stated.....

Hope this helps...

Quote


Here is a reply from Mark Ode from UL

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A weep hole or drain hole, usually located in each corner of the
enclosure must be left open and not used for a No. 4 grounding electrode
conductor
, even though it fits extremely well, since the purpose of the
holes are to ensure that any water that may enter the enclosure for any
reason has the ability to drain out of the enclosure. By inserting
something into these holes and encumbering drainage, you may adversely
affect the operation of the equipment.

There are some panels that have the corner drain holes with an additional
small knockout inside of a larger knockout where either the small knockout
can be removed and a No. 4 inserted into the hole or the larger knockout
can be removed with a connector installed and then the No. 4 inserted into
the connector and tightened down. These knockouts were installed so that
the user would not hopefully feel the need to use the weep holes for this
purpose.


Paul W. Abernathy,CME,RMS
Electrical Contractor
NEC Instructor
Re: Grounding Electrode Conductor Connector? #14028 12/02/06 09:40 PM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 362
Obsaleet Offline
Member
He in Lancaster, we are told that next code cycle an approved fitting for GEC will be required. The are calling them Kenny clamps. I have only seen ones that work on solid conductorand CU only. I personally not used them as they are not reversable and would need to be cut off if a panel change would arise. I'll stick with NMC conn for untill told otherwise.

Phil(Ob)


Choose your customers, don't let them choose you.
Re: Grounding Electrode Conductor Connector? #14029 12/02/06 09:42 PM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 362
Obsaleet Offline
Member


Choose your customers, don't let them choose you.
Re: Grounding Electrode Conductor Connector? #14030 12/03/06 12:47 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 5
P
PAbernathy Offline
Junior Member
"The only UL Listed Connector that will insure grounding electrode condustor installations are code compliant!!!

All Service rated Panel boards, Pad Mount and Dry Type Transformer Installations are NOT being installed meeting the minimum NEC requirements!!

The Kenny Clamp is the ONLY UL Listed connector for bonding and grounding of electrode conductors in panel boards, Pad Mount, Dry type Transformers, metallic raceways and enclosures.

Install Kenny Clamp through a ½” Knockout with paint removed, tighten the steel locknut, insert grounding electrode conductor through the Kenny Clamp, and tighten the compression nut."

I guess that would fine in regards to using the 1/2" KO for the entrance. But the manufacturer provided a 1/4" opening that must be knocked out in the bottom or top of the panel next to the SE KO's location for the purpose of the GEC per their intentions.

Now I like the looks of that clamp for entering into 1/2" KO's.....great stuff....but they are streaching it on the claims and code references.

Until the manufacturers stop providing this opening...chances are it will always be used and meet compliance as the manufacturer intends.


Paul W. Abernathy,CME,RMS
Electrical Contractor
NEC Instructor
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