ECN Forum Forums General Topics of the Trade General Discussion Area Has ECN created a "Monster"?

66WV,
Sorry I took so long to respond. If I'm ever in your neck of the woods, I'll look you up. One word comes to mind in this situation, and to me, the word is "truth" (as others have stated). It sounds to me like this guy is upset because he knows the "truth", and doesn't want to deal with the fact that he needs to correct his mistakes. If this is anything like the situations I've seen in the past, I'm sure that your expenses are coming out of the payment that the G.C. owes him. IMHO the problem is between the other guy and the GC. I'm sure that he doesn't have the "knads" to go confront the GC, so he thinks he can come pick on you. I think that the GC called you in because they don't know electric from a hole in the ground, and heck, you're just doing what they hired you to do. Which is advise them on what needs to be done, correct problems, and finish the project, so that they can be paid as well. Stand your ground. If you want to actually make the corrections, and finish the project, then be prepared for a bigger fight, or inform the GC that you have documented the violations, advise them that before they make final payment to the other guy the violations should be corrected, send the GC a bill for your time, and walk away. I would add alittle extra in to take Mama out to a nice dinner, heck a movie too, she deserves it.
I trust your judgement on the box fill violations. I'm sure you know how to do the math. The GFI's, and working clearances are so obvious that any apprentice could point them out. I'm behind ya 66!

...she did the "monster" mash,
Doc

Thanks so much for all the support.

Things have quieted down, and the "Electrical Evangelist" has stopped preaching for a while. My co-op partner, Joe, is handling the job, and I am helping him as needed, I'm not on any paper work involved, it's all T&M billed by Joe. (There's a photo shoot coming up tomorrow or Wednesday, and it's hurry-hurry...)

I don't know if they're going to let us do much more than hang fixtures, and so far, the boxes have been big enough, so just bonding and pigtailing is all that's needed for them.

We've hung a lot of "cheap" (relatively) fixtures from Lowe's to take the place of the porcelain keyless lampholders in place and awaiting the arrival of hand-made fixtures from Europe (most likely non-listed/labelled)...

I'm awaiting change-order approval to continue on my contract, which will probably be after tomorrow.

During the photo shoot, we may be asked to move some of the fixtures around to get better subjects... Sounds like a nightmare (sigh)...

Other jobs are piling up, and some are the jobs on this site, landscape lighting and traffic gates are awaiting Joe's attention, and we keep on getting more jobs...

We both are looking for potential apprentices. I've got two hard-working guys in mind, if I can get them to go take the test.

At any rate, I thank you all very much once again. Your opinions are highly valued, and I respect you all very greatly.

-Virgil Kelly

Look Purty for the camera! Hope you can post a pic or two if time allows. Glad to hear there are jobs waiting in the wings.

Mike (mamils)

Sparky66wv,
You stated "In this case, the AHJ is either myself, the leasor, the leasee, or the General Contractor (Contruction Managers)."

Wouldn't the AHJ be the owner, unless he has legally designated someone? Can the electrician or GC AHJ themselves? You have the knowledge and can be liable, but do you have any "Authority" to enforce anything? In don't believe the leasee would voluntarily eliminate his option to sue in the future, even if he could be designated the AHJ.

Gerald Powell

Gerald,

I guess I was referring to AHJ on more of a moral standpoint... As you are right, I suppose, legally the owner would be the AHJ...

Does this mean that if the owner "approves" of the non-compliant and non-UL-listed wares, then I don't have to fix it?

Does this also mean that if an owner insists upon a non-compliant installation (it happens all the time, believe me, I've lost jobs because of it...) and there are no other AHJ's, then I may agree to install in said manner without reprocussions, liability, or any other bad thing coming my way?

I'm confused here...



[This message has been edited by sparky66wv (edited 07-16-2002).]

Here in NJ, every town appoints an AHJ, wether he is from a third party, from the state or is an employee of the town. Some towns cant afford full time inspectors so we might work for several towns on a part time bases. Anyway, when there is a problem between 2 contractors or the homeowner and contractor, I don't act like a judge or jury. I would either allow the first party to fix the problem (if the homeowner allows him back on the property) or get a second contractor to fix the problems. Then they need to do a "change of contractor" permit and call for inspection. The job must be inspected and it has to pass the NEC ( as adopted by my state.)

Harold

sparky66wv,

My posting about who mignt be the AHJ was concerned with my interpretation from Code and government entities. Liability is another issue. I believe your knowledge and experience makes you the most liable in this case. All the way from the NFPA, state and local AHJs and individual inspectors there are disclaimers to hold them non-liable for any part they play in determining the safety of the installation. Even some contracts try to hold the engineer non-liable (hold harmless clauses) and put it all on the installing contractor.

I believe that in no case could you be considered the AHJ for this job, but that is just academic if litigation happens. Even if there is no possibility of you being considered liable should injury be caused by the installation, I'm sure you would let your conscience be the main "AHJ".

Gerald Powell

I don't suppose WV has entertained art 80?

I would consider another carear should i be put in a position to take the fall, without makin' the call.......