ECN Forum Forums General Topics of the Trade General Discussion Area Has ECN created a "Monster"?

You did the right thing.....recently I had a similiar situation with one of my clients; he took over a half completed new constuction, he claimed that the previos electrician had a series of code violations and that he documented each and every one. I advised him that before he does a stitch of work on the site that he have an independent inspector come in and write up the job (I advised him not to tell the inspector of his motivation for calling him in)I further advised him to serve a copy of the report on the GC before begining work. My concerns were that if the house burned down the two electricians would be pointing fingers at one another, so the independant inspectors report bails out the second electrician. Further, serving the GC with the violations, puts him on notice and pre-empts possible future litigation. Lastly, few inspectors are going to want to put there name to a document that points a finger on a potential future law suit, its one thing if they point out a violation to the electrian himself, but to say "hey if this house burns down or if anyone is injured...don't look at the second electrician, it was the first electrician's fault"

As far as a defamation/slander claim.....truth is an absolute defense to either. To say he did sloppy work is an opinion, if you stated the facts and the truth and only pointed out violations, your safe.

I say stand your ground.

RMIESQ, thanks for the thumbs up...

It means alot to me right now to have the approval of my friends here.

Thanks.

-Virgil

Rob ( as well as your document) brings up a third party inspector.
If this were so, would he/she overrule the AHJ ? Or would it simply serve as 'mediation'?
The violations ( like lack of GFI's in the kit) are NOT a grey area to novices here.....

So did you actually start the work or is this a report on what you believe needs to be done. Is it possible to walk away at this point. That is what I would do. You have done the right thing without question, you can only make people do what they want to do I guess. File the report with the appropriate authority(s) and leave it it that. You can then move on knowing you did your best to right a wrong. These are CLEAR violations to anyone with any knowledge of the NEC. This would not fly here in Mass. This guy would be before the Board of Electricians for sure.

[This message has been edited by Electricmanscott (edited 07-12-2002).]

I am not sure what AHJ is ? But I dont think that will change my answer. An independant inspector is thrown in the the mix for two reasons.

First, he will document the condition before the second electrician starts work. So god forbid a fire occurs and the ignition source is found to be in a second floor bedroom, If the inspector noted that there was a violation there; it removes liability from the second electrician.

Second if a law suit arises and both electricians are named, each will be pointing fingers at the other. In a situation like that most time the insuance carriers will split the loss, with the inspector he will tip the liability in favor of the first electrician, even if the ignition source was not documented as a violation, all the other violations will create a presumption that the fire was the cause of the first electricians sloppy work.

Rob,
AHJ= 'Authority Having Juristiction'

this , in effect, could be anyone, however the new art 80 in the 02' code attempts to set some workable peramiters for those who choose to adopt it.....here is some opening 'commentary'.....

In this case, the AHJ is either myself, the leasor, the leasee, or the General Contractor (Contruction Managers). The only "real" inspectors merely inspect the service for the Power Company. Their jurisdiction stops at the distribution load center.

Sparky66 --

I would suggest that you simply remove the violations. Simply writing them up and not repairing them might increase your liability.

----

As far as libel/slander.

If you say the electrictian is incompetent, then you have libeled/slandered him and you have no defense.

If you say his work is not to code, then truth is a defense.

The difference is that he can be competent and CHOOSE to do poor work and you cannot prove otherwise.

Best to not comment about people only about specfic instances of their work.

George, there is no such thing as "simply" removing the violations unless you mean taking a bulldozer to the place and starting over... I doubt they'll go for that.

The cables are too short... All of them... The boxes are too small... All of them.

Two stories, finished basement, and "final punch out" has been going on for about a month or two now, and the owner wants it finished "yesterday"...

My hands have been washed clean of the mess, until something bad happens, I guess.

Your advice is taken into consideration, however.

If you haven't already, please take a look at the report and tell me if I have crossed the line.

-Virgil

[This message has been edited by sparky66wv (edited 07-14-2002).]

Virgil: My two cents worth..

Your report appears to me to be done in a professional manner. It is succinct, it mentions violations thus far discovered (as well as those possibly yet undiscovered), it cites applicable deviations from the NEC, it indicates terms under which Kelly Electric/Musser Electric will correct said violations, and it does all this without bringing personalities into the picture.

My best wishes to you and others.

Mike (mamills)