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#111282 - 10/08/06 11:33 AM Fast Food Fryer Failure  
renosteinke  Offline
Cat Servant
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
Blue Collar Country
A fast-food place called me, complaining that they kept losing power to their deep-fryers. FWIW, it turned out that the fryers were gas, and used electirc only for the controls and igniters.

I know why they were losing power; anyone out there care to guess?

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#111283 - 10/08/06 01:51 PM Re: Fast Food Fryer Failure  
electrictim510  Offline
Member
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 23
Richmond, CA, 94804
And they probably thought they were helping theirselves out. I cant stand those kind of calls, good cash but messy and busy to work around.


#111284 - 10/08/06 01:56 PM Re: Fast Food Fryer Failure  
iwire  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
North Attleboro, MA USA
That is a problem as non-dwelling kitchens require GFCI protection.

Sounds like they have a problem with the equipment if it's tripping the GFCI.


Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts

#111285 - 10/08/06 03:06 PM Re: Fast Food Fryer Failure  
renosteinke  Offline
Cat Servant
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
Blue Collar Country
Well, I suppose I ought to explain some about this install.

First of all, the fryer cords connect outside of the hood. This means that they will NOT be turned off when the Ansul system is operated.

The immediate problem, though, is the presence of the cord connections and GFI unit just above the fryers. When food is placed in the fryer, a great deal of moisture / oil enters the air. This will then condense on anything in it's path that is cooler. TRhat would include "cold" electrical connections.

Condensing moisture would allow current to leak across the face of the plug, to both the neutral and ground prongs. The GFI would see this, and trip.

Simply re-locating the connection outside of the condensation area eliminated the problem. (Of course, this was done without using extension cords, etc.)

None of the electric has been tied into the Ansul as yet; a bid has been submitted.


#111286 - 10/09/06 06:40 PM Re: Fast Food Fryer Failure  
ShockMe77  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 821
Rahway, New Jersey
If condensation is causing current to "leak" from the receptacle, why not just install a GFCI OCPD as required by 210.8 (B) (2)?

(I love using those big electricial abbreviations)


#111287 - 10/09/06 06:42 PM Re: Fast Food Fryer Failure  
ShockMe77  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 821
Rahway, New Jersey
Oh wait... that wouldn't solve the problem.

My bad.


#111288 - 10/09/06 06:47 PM Re: Fast Food Fryer Failure  
iwire  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
North Attleboro, MA USA
John as these are 120 volt 20 amp circuits they can not provide the source of heat to the appliances.

It's not the power under a hood that must be killed it is the source of heat.

If these are Gas appliances a cable operated gas valve is in order.

At least that is how it's done in my area.

Bob


Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts

#111289 - 10/09/06 08:08 PM Re: Fast Food Fryer Failure  
renosteinke  Offline
Cat Servant
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
Blue Collar Country
I've only installed a few "Ansul" systems, Iwire, so I am no expert. However, here it is required, when the system is tripped, that ALL sources of ignition be disconnected, as well as make-up air be stopped. This meands that the lights under the hood, any receptacles, and all electric equipment be shut off- in addition to the gas being shut off.

You are quite correct; the circuit only powered the controls and the gas igniter. Were these deep fryers to be all electric, they would likely need a 100 amp circuit. (Bit much for that extension cord!)


#111290 - 10/10/06 06:35 PM Re: Fast Food Fryer Failure  
trekkie76  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 220
baileyville, maine, usa
It is similar here, the last ansul I wired killed the make up air, the hood lights, and ran the exhuast fan for 30 seconds then shut it off. As the range was gas fired there was a cable operated valve that was tied into the trigger mechanism.


#111291 - 10/11/06 05:56 AM Re: Fast Food Fryer Failure  
iwire  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
North Attleboro, MA USA
Maybe I am wrong I will try to find the requirements.

As far as I can recall its not the source of ignition that needs to be killed....the ignition has already happened at the point the ansul trips.

But it is hard to extinguish a fire if heat is still being pumped into the bottom of the fire.

Remember the fire triangle Fuel, Oxygen, Heat.

I have never seen an Ansul system kill the under hood lights.


Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts

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