ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
ShoutChat Box
Recent Posts
Where is Everyone?
by gfretwell - 11/27/20 06:18 PM
Happy Thanksgiving
by gfretwell - 11/26/20 08:52 PM
Insulated Tools: A Waste of Money?
by HotLine1 - 11/26/20 12:28 PM
Ground fault remover :-)
by NORCAL - 11/26/20 08:13 AM
Work Gloves?
by sabrown - 11/25/20 01:54 PM
New in the Gallery:
Facebook follies, bad wiring
FPE in Germany pt.2
Who's Online Now
1 registered members (Scott35), 12 guests, and 12 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
# 12 THHN used as handle tie #109169 10/20/03 06:54 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,632
Admin Offline OP
Administrator
Member
[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]
Quote
I don't believe the wire is strong enough to trip both breakers, if suppose one of them were to trip?

-richard

2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
Re: # 12 THHN used as handle tie #109170 10/21/03 10:49 AM
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,148
R
resqcapt19 Offline
Member
Handle ties are not intented to provide a common trip. They are only intended to provide a common disconnect. The code code permits "approved" handle ties in 240.20(B), but I doubt that the AHJ has approved the wire as a handle tie. Even the handle ties from the breaker manufacturer do not turn 2 breakers into a "common trip" breaker.
Don


Don(resqcapt19)
Re: # 12 THHN used as handle tie #109171 10/24/03 11:01 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,632
Admin Offline OP
Administrator
Member
Here's another Photo sent in with a question along the same lines:

[Linked Image]
Quote
Is it illegal to take two single-pole breakers and link them together with a piece of copper wire and use them as a two-pole breaker for a 220V application? Is it safety hazard? Look at breakers 7 and 9 in the power panel.

Re: # 12 THHN used as handle tie #109172 10/25/03 10:34 AM
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,148
R
resqcapt19 Offline
Member
In this second case 240.20(B) requires the use of a common trip breaker. The use of approved handle ties is not permitted for this application. If these breakers were serving a multiwire branch circuit and not a 220 volt load the use of approved handle ties would be permitted by 240.20(B)(1).
As far as a safety hazard, I don't think so. The same condition would exist if the OCPDs were fuses in place of the single pole breakers and fuses are premitted to protect this circuit.
Don
corrected my code section reference from 240.21 to 240.20

[This message has been edited by resqcapt19 (edited 10-27-2003).]


Don(resqcapt19)
Re: # 12 THHN used as handle tie #109173 10/25/03 07:23 PM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,081
T
ThinkGood Offline
Member
resqcapt19:

Thanks for the explanation.

Re: # 12 THHN used as handle tie #109174 10/27/03 01:14 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 12
S
sparky74 Offline
Junior Member
So for a 220V load, a two-pole breaker must be used--period! Correct?

Re: # 12 THHN used as handle tie #109175 10/27/03 07:15 AM
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,148
R
resqcapt19 Offline
Member
Sparky,
Sorry, I misspoke in the earlier post. On a grounded single phase circuit the code does permit the use of single pole breakers with handle ties for 220 volt loads.
Quote
240.20(B)(B) Circuit Breaker as Overcurrent Device. Circuit breakers shall open all ungrounded conductors of the circuit unless otherwise permitted in 240.20(B)(1), (B)(2), and (B)(3).
(1) Multiwire Branch Circuit. Except where limited by 210.4(B), individual single-pole circuit breakers, with or without approved handle ties, shall be permitted as the protection for each ungrounded conductor of multiwire branch circuits that serve only single-phase line-to-neutral loads.
(2) Grounded Single-Phase and 3-wire dc Circuits. In grounded systems, individual single-pole circuit breakers with approved handle ties shall be permitted as the protection for each ungrounded conductor for line-to-line connected loads for single-phase circuits or 3-wire, direct-current circuits.


Don(resqcapt19)
Re: # 12 THHN used as handle tie #109176 10/27/03 08:45 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 12
S
sparky74 Offline
Junior Member
resqcapt19:

Thanks a lot for the info. I guess the only discrepency is that, the piece of copper wire is not an "approved" handle tie.

Re: # 12 THHN used as handle tie #109177 10/27/03 11:12 AM
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,148
R
resqcapt19 Offline
Member
Sparky,
You would have to ask the AHJ about that. He can "approve" the wire if he want to.
Don


Don(resqcapt19)

Featured:

2020 National Electrical Code
2020 National Electrical
Code (NEC)

* * * * * * *

2020 Master Electrician Exam Preparation Combos
2020 NEC Electrician
Exam Prep Combos:
Master / Journeyman

 

Member Spotlight
sbi
sbi
indiana
Posts: 47
Joined: March 2008
Show All Member Profiles 
Top Posters(30 Days)
Trumpy 9
Popular Topics(Views)
272,009 Are you busy
205,897 Re: Forum
193,951 Need opinion
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3