ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
ShoutChat
Recent Posts
Happy Thanksgiving all!
by gfretwell - 11/30/22 05:55 PM
EMC Glands on Motors
by gfretwell - 11/30/22 05:53 PM
Ground Rods: Installation and Hook-Up
by gfretwell - 11/30/22 05:45 PM
Colt Firearms Switchbox
by NORCAL - 11/29/22 01:04 AM
Perfect work light?
by gfretwell - 11/22/22 12:48 AM
New in the Gallery:
240/208 to a house
240/208 to a house
by wa2ise, October 9
Now you know.
Now you know.
by Tom_Horne, September 7
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 65 guests, and 13 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 615
J
Jps1006 Offline OP
Member
In addition to my required kitchen countertop circuit, the customer wants a 220-volt receptacle for an Italian appliance. This is similar to a toaster or something, but 220-volt. Am I not required by NEC to GFI protect?

What do they do in Europe? are they required to protect kitchen counter top receptacles with GFI's?

Stay up to Code with the Latest NEC:


2020 NEC & Related Reference & Study Guides
2020 NEC & Related Reference & Study Guides
Pass Your Exam the FIRST TIME with these Exam Prep Combos:
 

>> Master Electrician Exam Prep     >> JourneyMan Electrician Exam Prep
 

Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,289
Member
210.8(A) All 125 volt.......
No GFI required.

But look out.

210.6(A)(2)Limits the voltage in dwellings to nominal 120 volts for cord-and-plug-connected loads of 1,440VA or less, or less than 1/4 hp.

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 745
E
Member
That is an excellent question. I have never encountered such a situation. I guess you learn something new every day.


---Ed---

"But the guy at Home Depot said it would work."
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,507
G
Member
Excellent answer also. I've run into this a coupla time when people want to use "portable" kitchen appliances like toaster and coffee brewers that they bring her from out of the US.


George Little
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,770
Likes: 14
G
Member
I don't see a huge hazard. Canada has mandated multiwire, split receptacles in the kitchen for years and they don't have a huge body count. That is still 240v on a single yoke. If the customes says he thinks the "kettle" is about 1500w the code problem goes away. I seem to recall the Brits use some pretty hefty kettles.
Nobody wants to wait too long for their tea. [Linked Image]

Being Italian it may be an expresso machine.

[This message has been edited by gfretwell (edited 01-08-2007).]


Greg Fretwell
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 161
M
Member
OK, why not do it? It isn't likely to do much false tripping, and might save someone's life. $60 breaker vs. electrocution. Code is a minimum, not recommended design practice. What is the intent behind this part of the code?

How many homes have you done lately with the code minimum lighting?

Thanks... I'm done now. :-)


Mike Wescoatt
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 613
M
Member
I find it interesting that it has taken the CEC until the 2006 edition to mandate GFCI protection around kitchen sinks and frankly don't really think that is necessary. I guess somewhere someone has been electrocuted in the kitchen by touching a faulty appliance and the sink. or washed a plugged in toaster. The CEC only requires GFCI protection for 15 and 20 amp receptacles. In Canada at least the Italian 230 volt, Pannini maker could have a receptacle installed without gfci protection. Now whether or not the appliance needs a special approval will depend on the lable on the appliance. Perhaps there is a standard that would not approve a counter top toaster operating at 230 volts for home use.
Incidently if for example a coffe maker was installed on the counter and was connected in such a way where it could not be easily moved on the counter, then if the receptacle was located behind the coffee maker it would not require GFCI protection.

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 231
R
Member
In Ontario,Canada it is required to have all receptacles, that are located in kitchens and installed within 1m of a kitchen sink, protected by a GFCI. So if this appliance was within this distance it would need to be protected.

The CEC which, covers different provinces in Canada states that only 120V, 15 and 20 amp receptacles require this.

When I was overseas almost every panel that I worked in had those residual current devices. The buildings that I worked in were small. Sorta sucked troubleshooting because if a neutral in any circuit would touch ground the main would trip.

The appliance will most likely require approval for use in the US by the AHJ.

Myself I would GFCI it if it was close to the sink, if its located somewhere else then I wouldn't.

Wish I knew more about the US codes to help you out.



[This message has been edited by RobbieD (edited 01-09-2007).]

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,770
Likes: 14
G
Member
Where do AHJ's approve appliances? If it is not fixed in place when the AHJ issues the CO they couldn't care less what a homeowner brings in later.


Greg Fretwell
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 231
R
Member
I'm not sure about the approval marking thing. All I know is that it is illegal here in Canada to sell an electrical appliance that is not listed by one of the approved agencies.
I just always assumed that the insurance company would give you a hard time if your house burnt down and they concluded that the cause was an appliance fire from an unlisted appliance that you knew wasn't listed by an approved agency.

But I guess they give you a hard time about all claims anyway.

Page 1 of 2 1 2

Link Copied to Clipboard
Featured:

Tools for Electricians
Tools for Electricians
 

* * * * * * *
2023 National Electrical Code (NEC)
2023 NEC Now Available!
 
* * * * * * *

2020 Master Electrician Exam Preparation Combos
2020 NEC Electrician
Exam Prep Combos:
Master / Journeyman

 

Member Spotlight
CharlieE
CharlieE
Indianapolis
Posts: 201
Joined: April 2004
Top Posters(30 Days)
Trumpy 7
NORCAL 5
Popular Topics(Views)
300,343 Are you busy
230,002 Re: Forum
214,812 Need opinion
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5