bob, now you are learning.

realize flat rate - as a term used by the trades- is nothing more than a manual (yes, specifically a written manual) that contains the average prices for particular jobs. These prices could've been determined by actual past bidding processes or looking over a bunch of past T&M jobs.

But it's based on actual costs and historical times for given tasks.

now, if the company you work for operates in a way that someone other than the installers goes and looks at a job, formulates a price, submits it, then the installers go in a do the job, it's not far off from how we flat-raters work.

the difference is, our installers look at the job, then using our flat rate manual (which gives them a basis for their pricing) they determine how best for them to perform the task, price it accordingly (using the manual as a reference - not as an absolute) submit the price on the spot, and if approved, perform the work.

It saves us at least 1 trip and potential miscommunication between the estimator/salesman and the installer.

But there is no set price for our tasks. And our book prices are different than LK's, and everyone else out there.

No offense meant Bob, but if you notice, I only stick my nose into certain topics. They are the topics I know. So, you can respond the way you did, or you can do research, or you can realize that I have no reason to feed you BS about this topic. Doesn't do me one damn bit of good to diseminate misinformation about it. The more guys in the country that understand and use flat-rate (upfront pricing, contract pricing, predetermined pricing, already known pricing, no suprise at the end of the job pricing, no SWAG pricing, etc) the better it is for me.

So, I ask one question, why is it that when someone doesn't know about a subject, they ask a question, but if they don't like the answer from people who know the answer, they get defensive and argue with them?

LK presented it accurately. PE added to it greatly. I didn't say anything different. I simply added that any flat rate contractor I know would agree with LK's definition. But, apparently 500+ contractors are wrong. No problem. I'll get on the phone and tell them.

Good luck and have a safe day at work.