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#90692 - 12/08/04 10:03 AM ACCESSIBLE GEC | 250.24(A)  
mustangelectric  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 494
Bentonville, AR
Hi,
I thought taking the gec from the meterbase to the electrode is allowed? I know the meter is closed with a tag by the poco but does that mean that it is not accessible? The handbook says accessible. I know a lot of pocos wont allow this.

I have an inspector that says a meterbase does not qualify for that according to 250.24(A).

Is this another one of those fuzzy areas where you are dealing with a personal preference or does this inspector have a case?

Thanks for any replies.

-regards

Mustang

[This message has been edited by mustangelectric (edited 12-08-2004).]


Electricity has no respect for ignorance!

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#90693 - 12/08/04 09:06 PM Re: ACCESSIBLE GEC | 250.24(A)  
trekkie76  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 220
baileyville, maine, usa
acessible or readily acessible? I take the GEC all the time. Any place from the drop to the disconnecting means you can land the ground.


#90694 - 12/09/04 01:22 AM Re: ACCESSIBLE GEC | 250.24(A)  
gfretwell  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,116
Estero,Fl,usa
250.24(A)(1) says "any accessible point from the load end of the service drop or service lateral to and including the terminal or bus to which the grounded service conductor is connected at the service disconnecting means."
The meter base is accessible, you don't destroy the building finish when you open it.
I didn't like the connection in there either but the handbook shows it as one of the acceptible locations.


Greg Fretwell

#90695 - 12/09/04 09:17 AM Re: ACCESSIBLE GEC | 250.24(A)  
mustangelectric  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 494
Bentonville, AR
Hi,
The inspector I spoke with said that IT WAS NOT ACCESSIBLE and threatened JAIL time for any person who opens it other than the POCO.

He sounded tired of answering the question.

I too saw the graphic in the handbook that shows the meterbase as an acceptable location.

I think since he is the AHJ he and the POCO have teamed up to restrict any access to the meterbase. Which is fine with me but, the code clearly allows it so therefore he should not and the poco should not restrict access to QUALIFIED PERSONS.

I do not mind taking to the first ocpd but either one way or another is how it should be defined.

Maybe the NEC should put an end to the question and require in other than the meterbase so that it is the same everywhere.

Thanks for the replies.

-regards

Mustang


Electricity has no respect for ignorance!

#90696 - 12/09/04 12:45 PM Re: ACCESSIBLE GEC | 250.24(A)  
gfretwell  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,116
Estero,Fl,usa
This must just be a local bias. In SW Florida FPL likes the GEC in the meter base. If you look at services you will see about 90% have the GEC raceway entering the bottom of the meter pan.


Greg Fretwell

#90697 - 12/09/04 12:54 PM Re: ACCESSIBLE GEC | 250.24(A)  
Roger  Offline
Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,716
N.C.
I have always wondered why areas that prohibit the GEC connection in the meter think the GEC would need to be anymore accessible than the other conductors that are terminated within the meter can. [Linked Image]

BTW, I was talking to an ex convict who said the "GEC in the Meter Can" prisoners were some of the most feared in the Big House. [Linked Image]


Roger

[This message has been edited by Roger (edited 12-09-2004).]


#90698 - 12/09/04 01:01 PM Re: ACCESSIBLE GEC | 250.24(A)  
gfretwell  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,116
Estero,Fl,usa
I don't know that many electricians who are intimidated by the meter seal. A 30 second phone call to the utility gets them off the hook when they cut one.


Greg Fretwell

#90699 - 12/09/04 01:03 PM Re: ACCESSIBLE GEC | 250.24(A)  
mustangelectric  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 494
Bentonville, AR
Hi,
Good point Roger...don't these conductors have to be accessible?

I think that if the code says it is allowed then NOBODY should be able to overule that.

Everytime we do a job in a different city or state we go through this. Our drawings show the GEC from the meterbase.

The plan reviewer or inspector seems to be enforcing his or her own preference or they have gotten this from the POCO.

The inspector was like a ravenous dog about the question. He was pretty upset that we would even ask! I am almost tempted to call him back and ask if there is a restriction on accessing the load side conductors and do they allow QUALIFIED persons to open a meterbase. In kentucky an Electrican or EC can open any meterbase. This inspector threatened to send anybody who opens the meterbase to JAIL!

Thanks for the replies.

-regards

Mustang


Electricity has no respect for ignorance!

#90700 - 12/09/04 03:22 PM Re: ACCESSIBLE GEC | 250.24(A)  
winnie  Offline
Member
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 649
boston, ma
Mustang,

Remember that the code is _nothing_. Just some words on paper, the distilled experience of more than 100 years of thousands of people. Even if the code says that something is explicitly _not_ allowed, the code itself has absolutely zero capability of enforcement.

It is only when some government agency 'adopts' the code as law that you get enforcement. There is nothing that says that some local government couldn't adopt an entirely different code, or make up their own code, from scratch.

It is entirely normal for local governments to adopt the NEC with local 'amendments'; for example the requirements for using pipe in the Chicago area for things that everyone else permits the use of NM cable. If the local AHJ says you can't connect the GEC to the meter base, then that is the local code.

-Jon


#90701 - 12/09/04 03:54 PM Re: ACCESSIBLE GEC | 250.24(A)  
mustangelectric  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 494
Bentonville, AR
Hi,
I accept the fact that the code is not worth the paper it is written on unless there is someone out there who accpets it as being the NATIONAL STANDARD for electrical INSTALLATIONS and then adopts it as it's own. This is the intent of the NEC to be accepted as the NATIONAL STANDARD. I realize that in Alaska I need a headbolt heater and that in Florida you could not even find one (other than some snowbirds). I do not have a problem with citites or counties adding their requirements BUT if it is in the CODE I do not agree with messing with that. As you said the NEC is based on knowledge and experience from many folks so I think that although I do not always understand the reason behind some of the articles, I accpet the fact that I may not have the whole story.

I really do not have a problem with someone saying.."this is a city or county ammendment to the code" but do not say that "THE CODE DOES NOT ALLOW IT PER 250.24(A).

I always do whatever the AHJ says because they are the final word.

I see where your coming from though.

Thanks for the replies all.

-regards

Mustang



[This message has been edited by mustangelectric (edited 12-09-2004).]


Electricity has no respect for ignorance!

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