Hi,
I thought taking the gec from the meterbase to the electrode is allowed? I know the meter is closed with a tag by the poco but does that mean that it is not accessible? The handbook says accessible. I know a lot of pocos wont allow this.

I have an inspector that says a meterbase does not qualify for that according to 250.24(A).

Is this another one of those fuzzy areas where you are dealing with a personal preference or does this inspector have a case?

Thanks for any replies.

-regards

Mustang

[This message has been edited by mustangelectric (edited 12-08-2004).]

acessible or readily acessible? I take the GEC all the time. Any place from the drop to the disconnecting means you can land the ground.

250.24(A)(1) says "any accessible point from the load end of the service drop or service lateral to and including the terminal or bus to which the grounded service conductor is connected at the service disconnecting means."
The meter base is accessible, you don't destroy the building finish when you open it.
I didn't like the connection in there either but the handbook shows it as one of the acceptible locations.

Hi,
The inspector I spoke with said that IT WAS NOT ACCESSIBLE and threatened JAIL time for any person who opens it other than the POCO.

He sounded tired of answering the question.

I too saw the graphic in the handbook that shows the meterbase as an acceptable location.

I think since he is the AHJ he and the POCO have teamed up to restrict any access to the meterbase. Which is fine with me but, the code clearly allows it so therefore he should not and the poco should not restrict access to QUALIFIED PERSONS.

I do not mind taking to the first ocpd but either one way or another is how it should be defined.

Maybe the NEC should put an end to the question and require in other than the meterbase so that it is the same everywhere.

Thanks for the replies.

-regards

Mustang

This must just be a local bias. In SW Florida FPL likes the GEC in the meter base. If you look at services you will see about 90% have the GEC raceway entering the bottom of the meter pan.

I have always wondered why areas that prohibit the GEC connection in the meter think the GEC would need to be anymore accessible than the other conductors that are terminated within the meter can.

BTW, I was talking to an ex convict who said the "GEC in the Meter Can" prisoners were some of the most feared in the Big House.


Roger

[This message has been edited by Roger (edited 12-09-2004).]

I don't know that many electricians who are intimidated by the meter seal. A 30 second phone call to the utility gets them off the hook when they cut one.

Hi,
Good point Roger...don't these conductors have to be accessible?

I think that if the code says it is allowed then NOBODY should be able to overule that.

Everytime we do a job in a different city or state we go through this. Our drawings show the GEC from the meterbase.

The plan reviewer or inspector seems to be enforcing his or her own preference or they have gotten this from the POCO.

The inspector was like a ravenous dog about the question. He was pretty upset that we would even ask! I am almost tempted to call him back and ask if there is a restriction on accessing the load side conductors and do they allow QUALIFIED persons to open a meterbase. In kentucky an Electrican or EC can open any meterbase. This inspector threatened to send anybody who opens the meterbase to JAIL!

Thanks for the replies.

-regards

Mustang

Mustang,

Remember that the code is _nothing_. Just some words on paper, the distilled experience of more than 100 years of thousands of people. Even if the code says that something is explicitly _not_ allowed, the code itself has absolutely zero capability of enforcement.

It is only when some government agency 'adopts' the code as law that you get enforcement. There is nothing that says that some local government couldn't adopt an entirely different code, or make up their own code, from scratch.

It is entirely normal for local governments to adopt the NEC with local 'amendments'; for example the requirements for using pipe in the Chicago area for things that everyone else permits the use of NM cable. If the local AHJ says you can't connect the GEC to the meter base, then that is the local code.

-Jon

Hi,
I accept the fact that the code is not worth the paper it is written on unless there is someone out there who accpets it as being the NATIONAL STANDARD for electrical INSTALLATIONS and then adopts it as it's own. This is the intent of the NEC to be accepted as the NATIONAL STANDARD. I realize that in Alaska I need a headbolt heater and that in Florida you could not even find one (other than some snowbirds). I do not have a problem with citites or counties adding their requirements BUT if it is in the CODE I do not agree with messing with that. As you said the NEC is based on knowledge and experience from many folks so I think that although I do not always understand the reason behind some of the articles, I accpet the fact that I may not have the whole story.

I really do not have a problem with someone saying.."this is a city or county ammendment to the code" but do not say that "THE CODE DOES NOT ALLOW IT PER 250.24(A).

I always do whatever the AHJ says because they are the final word.

I see where your coming from though.

Thanks for the replies all.

-regards

Mustang



[This message has been edited by mustangelectric (edited 12-09-2004).]

Around here I would say 99%+ GEC's are terminated in the meter can. So much easier that way.

MY QUESTION.. what difference does it make? Meter or first ocpd?

The ground is the most unlikely of all conductors to get abused. Once installed it is virtually untouched for it's entire life.

I have yet to get a call or be sent on a call to fix or replace a damaged or a loose ground wire. I am not saying it can't happen. But a Jumbo jet could slam into it too.

This is probably the toughest conductor of them all. As a matter of fact if I am correct a #4 or larger doesnt even require protection or support.

A solid conductor is hard to secure but if done right I see no need to require access. I cant access a buried acorn unless I dig it up...thats not accessible.

-regards

Mustang

Greg, you and I are in perfect unison here.

Roger

In our local Power company EUSERC notes,
GEC shall be located outside of the sealable section.

Roger-I am not trying to beat a dead horse here but I was just curious as to what the concensus was on the subject. I am glad to hear that someone out there is seeing what I am seeing.

I figured a lot of inspectors would reply.

To me it really doesn't matter but it sure is worrysome to try and figure out what each jurisdiction wants. Some places will provide a handbook others it is just time on the pond.

-regards

Greg

It is my understanding that the GEC must be taken to the first means of disconnect,hence the panel board. 250.24 From that bus you may take it to the meter base. The meter is not a disconnecting means IMO.
JG

In REA coops there was often a service standard requirement to connect the Grounding Electrode Conductor (GEC) to the drip loop at the service drop. It was believed that this would provide superior lightning protection. At one home that I did the heavy up on I ran the GEC from the drip loop through the attic and down to the water service because the basement was finished. The inspector said I couldn't do that and I wrote him a letter to request the decision in writing. He replied with the green sticker in the envelope. I guess that he realized that not having seen it before was not a good reason to turn it down.

It is true that some utilities do not want anyone except their staff to open the meter enclosure. The use of locking rings in place of the lighter gage ceiling rings is becoming more common. Ringless meter enclosures are also being locked rather than sealed with greater frequency now. The connection is allowed inn the an accessible meter enclosure but since utility action can render it inaccessible it may no longer be best practice to terminate it there.
--
Tom H

JG, 250-24(A)1 doesn't say first to the disconnect, " any accessible point from the load end of the service drop or service lateral to and including the terminal or bus to which the grounded service conductor is connected at the service disconnect." Why would you want to take another wire out to the meter socket when the socket is already bonded to the grounded conductor?