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counter top outlets #89820
10/20/04 09:43 AM
10/20/04 09:43 AM
R
Reel-Break  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 178
nc
why does the code require the peninsular counter top be mounted in the upper cabinet.I`ve been lucky I guess I haven`t been nabbed before now.We`ve been putting the outlets in lower end of the cabinets but this inspector has shown us the light.(210.52c 5) My thing here is I have no means to mount one in the upper cabinet it wasn`t designed for one space wize.with the shelf built in I`d have to go above 20inches so I should be able to use the one in the end of peninsular counter.But how do you guys mount a rec in the cabinet Old work box?The home owner is really not wanting it there...any advice?

2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
Re: counter top outlets #89821
10/20/04 12:40 PM
10/20/04 12:40 PM
G
gfretwell  Online Content

Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,167
Estero,Fl,usa
My wife has decorative tile at the end of our peninsula that she would not let me cut a hole in for the receptacle. I figured out a "wiremold" box was a snug fit in the recess under the upper. I used 2, one for power, one for phone.


Greg Fretwell
Re: counter top outlets #89822
10/20/04 01:50 PM
10/20/04 01:50 PM
F
frankft  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 39
Maine
210-52c (5) Exception says that you can mount a recepticle at not more than 12" below the countertop as long as the countertop does not overhang the base by more than 6"
My question is what if the countertop overhangs the base by over 6" and there is no top cabinet. Then what, powerpole [Linked Image]


Thats how we do it up in the woods!
Re: counter top outlets #89823
10/20/04 08:52 PM
10/20/04 08:52 PM
J
John Steinke  Offline
Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 518
Reno,Nv., USA
I've wired a few kitchens recently, and, I must say, I am very happy that the local inspectors have been ignoring kitchen penninsulas and islands.

Why? Because so many of the designs make it impossible to comply with the code. A Typical arrangement will have a sink at the end, storage on one side, and stools on the other side. Placement on the ends is complicated by the storage drawers. The wall (if there is one) commonly is either too far from part of the counter, or obstructed by a sink, range, or whatever.

I think we need to re-think the code here!

Re: counter top outlets #89824
10/21/04 01:57 AM
10/21/04 01:57 AM
E
e57  Offline
Member
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,876
S.F.,CA USA
Quote
what if the countertop overhangs the base by over 6" and there is no top cabinet?


The answer I have for most of the challenging Kit penisula's and islands is..... And I personally hate the product.... plugmold under the counter facing down. Most stone counters will have plywood backing, at least, and if not I make them put it there if I know they wont go for any other solution. And if the over hang is deep they will never even know its there. The inspector will, because he/she will ask me on the inspection, everytime. ( I don't like being caught with my pants down, so I wont go for installs that wont pass ) Designers and Arch's dont like it, but it isn't up to them is it? And because it will take time to precission wire through a cab, force the cab maker to provide false backs to cabinet sections, and do your best to hide an unsightly required plug, its extra money in my opinion! Is that too harsh?


Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason
Re: counter top outlets #89825
10/21/04 07:38 AM
10/21/04 07:38 AM
G
George Little  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,489
Michigan USA
My personal favorite is a piece of SO cord and a sky hook / kellum grip approach as long as you use # 12 awg wire :-))


George Little
Re: counter top outlets #89826
10/21/04 08:16 AM
10/21/04 08:16 AM
E
ElectricAL  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 597
Minneapolis, MN USA
e57,

Thanks for that idea. I think its quite ingenious.

Placing a plugmold strip within 6" of the lip of the counter, on the underside of the overhang, offers more possibilities for successful installation before the project hits the fan. One immediate benefit I can see is that the stub out to the plugmold can come from anywhere along the length of the plugmold, and nothing requires the plugmold to be kept short.


Al Hildenbrand
Re: counter top outlets #89827
10/21/04 10:06 AM
10/21/04 10:06 AM
Bill Addiss  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,890
NY, USA
I too first thought that wiremold beneath a 6"+ overhang would be compliant, but looking at 210.52(C)(5)Exception has changed my mind.
Quote
Receptacles mounted below a countertop in accordance with this exception shall not be located where the countertop extends more than 150 mm (6 in.) beyond its support base


This seems to say that no Receptacle will be permitted under a countertop that extends more than 6 in.

Bill

Re: counter top outlets #89828
10/21/04 01:36 PM
10/21/04 01:36 PM
S
SolarPowered  Offline
Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 625
Palo Alto, CA, USA
It appears to me that it is impossible to satisfy the code when you have an island with a flat countertop that overhangs by more than 6" all around.

Anyone here know a solution for that?

Re: counter top outlets #89829
10/21/04 01:53 PM
10/21/04 01:53 PM
E
ElectricAL  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 597
Minneapolis, MN USA
Bill,

I think that sentence is modifying the sentence just before it, in that Exception.
Quote
2002 NEC 210.52(C)(5)Exception
Exception: To comply with the conditions specified in (a) or (b), receptacle outlets shall be permitted to be mounted not more than 300 mm (12 in.) below the countertop. Receptacles mounted below a countertop in accordance with this exception shall not be located where the countertop extends more than 150 mm (6 in.) beyond its support base. <OL TYPE=a>
[*] Construction for the physically impaired.
[*]On island and peninsular countertops where the countertop is flat across its entire surface (no backsplashes, dividers, etc.) and there are no means to mount a receptacle within 500 mm (20 in.) above the countertop, such as an overhead cabinet.</OL>


I would argue that located "below the countertop" is mounted in the support base for the countertop.

Plugmold, facing down, mounted on the underside of the countertop is mounted "on the countertop", that is, the plugmold is not "below the countertop".


Al Hildenbrand
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