why does the code require the peninsular counter top be mounted in the upper cabinet.I`ve been lucky I guess I haven`t been nabbed before now.We`ve been putting the outlets in lower end of the cabinets but this inspector has shown us the light.(210.52c 5) My thing here is I have no means to mount one in the upper cabinet it wasn`t designed for one space wize.with the shelf built in I`d have to go above 20inches so I should be able to use the one in the end of peninsular counter.But how do you guys mount a rec in the cabinet Old work box?The home owner is really not wanting it there...any advice?

My wife has decorative tile at the end of our peninsula that she would not let me cut a hole in for the receptacle. I figured out a "wiremold" box was a snug fit in the recess under the upper. I used 2, one for power, one for phone.

210-52c (5) Exception says that you can mount a recepticle at not more than 12" below the countertop as long as the countertop does not overhang the base by more than 6"
My question is what if the countertop overhangs the base by over 6" and there is no top cabinet. Then what, powerpole

I've wired a few kitchens recently, and, I must say, I am very happy that the local inspectors have been ignoring kitchen penninsulas and islands.

Why? Because so many of the designs make it impossible to comply with the code. A Typical arrangement will have a sink at the end, storage on one side, and stools on the other side. Placement on the ends is complicated by the storage drawers. The wall (if there is one) commonly is either too far from part of the counter, or obstructed by a sink, range, or whatever.

I think we need to re-think the code here!

The answer I have for most of the challenging Kit penisula's and islands is..... And I personally hate the product.... plugmold under the counter facing down. Most stone counters will have plywood backing, at least, and if not I make them put it there if I know they wont go for any other solution. And if the over hang is deep they will never even know its there. The inspector will, because he/she will ask me on the inspection, everytime. ( I don't like being caught with my pants down, so I wont go for installs that wont pass ) Designers and Arch's dont like it, but it isn't up to them is it? And because it will take time to precission wire through a cab, force the cab maker to provide false backs to cabinet sections, and do your best to hide an unsightly required plug, its extra money in my opinion! Is that too harsh?

My personal favorite is a piece of SO cord and a sky hook / kellum grip approach as long as you use # 12 awg wire :-))

e57,

Thanks for that idea. I think its quite ingenious.

Placing a plugmold strip within 6" of the lip of the counter, on the underside of the overhang, offers more possibilities for successful installation before the project hits the fan. One immediate benefit I can see is that the stub out to the plugmold can come from anywhere along the length of the plugmold, and nothing requires the plugmold to be kept short.

I too first thought that wiremold beneath a 6"+ overhang would be compliant, but looking at 210.52(C)(5)Exception has changed my mind.
This seems to say that no Receptacle will be permitted under a countertop that extends more than 6 in.

Bill

It appears to me that it is impossible to satisfy the code when you have an island with a flat countertop that overhangs by more than 6" all around.

Anyone here know a solution for that?

Bill,

I think that sentence is modifying the sentence just before it, in that Exception.
I would argue that located "below the countertop" is mounted in the support base for the countertop.

Plugmold, facing down, mounted on the underside of the countertop is mounted "on the countertop", that is, the plugmold is not "below the countertop".

Al,

Unless it's actually part of the countertop it must be below it. It seems the intent is to not require or permit outlets in this situation.

Bill

Bill,

Here's a hypothetical: Counter edge overhang of 18".

So, if I recess a wall case into a counter that is, say 3" thick, and route conductors to the wall case, and the wall case is within six inches of the counter edge, facing down (lest we forget 406.4(E)), then is that installation allowed by 210.52(C)(5)Exception, in your opinion?

[This message has been edited by ElectricAL (edited 10-21-2004).]

It seems clear to me, what am I missing?

Bob

Al,

What I am saying is that there doesn't seem to be a code-compliant way to put a Receptacle under or below a countertop that overhangs more than 6".

I had the same thoughts regarding the plugmold within 6 inches and being 'on' not 'under' etc, but after looking again (IMO) I don't think the code language allows it and also that it goes against the intent behind it.

Bill

OK,

I get it now. I was fixated on the 6".

So, to the inspectors in the crowd, when confronted with the island that SolarPowered describes above, do you require the altering of the island?

Or can the island become something like a fixed table?

Al,Sarcasm aside why do you feel the 6" that I am fixated on can be ignored?

I have heard that some people have the counter shop make a raised spot for the outlet.

IMO treating an island as furniture and not providing an outlet is not a good idea or even an option.

Bob

Bob,

That wasn't sarcasm.

There are a number of my installations I have had inspected and passed since this change was introduced in '99 that have left me with the idea that the support base within 6" of the counter edge was fair game for outlet location even as the support base wraps under an area of greater overhang.

The common situation has been on an island with something like 2" counter overhang on three sides and much more than 6" on one end. I have placed outlets in the support base (cabinet wall) on the end under the long overhang, with the outlet close to the corners. Placed there, the far edge of the outlet is within the 6" from the edge of the 2" counter overhang. I've had these pass without comment under various AHJs.

Going back to the 1999 IAEI Analysis, I see my installs could have been called.

I had, until now, generalized to "within 6" of the edge is OK". Fixated on the 6".

What I find, with many of my clients, is that they feel comfortable with the cord going to the receptacle just under the counter on the long-overhang end. They rail at cords hanging down the drawer and door laden front on the rest of the cabinet and reject the receptacle on the far side from the "working side" as being too inconvenient to use.

Interestingly, my clients have had no concern about the appliance being pulled down by the cord when the cord is routed under the long overhang (outlet within 6").

My mistake, sorry.

Bob

No worries Bob. Your 6:00 PM post's openning line actually gave me a hearty laugh for what I took as a double meaning.

Wow, I missed all the mayhem on this since I posted that about the under the counter deal.

Now to clarify, these outlets never go in front of drawer, or cab door areas. And it is actually very rare for me to come across an area where there is more than a 6" over hang. And if it were, most often it would be an over-hang intended for seating at the counter, and there would not be a plug there.

However, at rough inspection, if I have something like this, where the Arch' or Designer won't go for any other, or come up with a solution, I show the Inspector the cab' drawings, and bounce it off of him/her, and most often they will say, "You can put one right there in the side if you shorten that drawer, and put a false back in it, (Right in the millwork! Right where nobody wants one.) I don't care how you design it, you can get on there. You look like a creative guy, surprise me." And, they will ask, is there an island, is there a receptical on it? (Out of our 15 or so Inspectors in my city, only 10 are absolute fascists, and will make you come up with something.)

The Arch' and Designer get wound up when you tell 'em the Inspectors take on it, and you're back to square one. So that was the solution I came up with several years ago, so far it works!

Oh, I nearly forgot my favorite one!

This is one the customer wanted, and suggested........

A grommet hole in the counter to a plug inside the cabinet.

Hey Am I missing something if I have a counter with a cabinet within 20 in over the counter(pininsular) then I must put that outlet in the upper cabinet.I cannot put it in the lower end of the peninsular even if it has 6in overhang.Makes little sence to me. But unless I`m totally out there reading it says it must be mounted in the uppercabinet.As the code officer stated he`s got me and lovin it because its a vaulted ceiling and fishing a wire will be tuff....Does the code require a outlet to be wired?......Hey I`m desperate(lol)....

I don't know about any other state but in NJ we have a thing called "Variation to the Code". Which is an offical form given to us by the state. It consists of 3 parts. Very Simply 1) What section of the code do you not want to follow. 2) Why would following the code create hardship. 3) What are you going to do to help in correcting the problem. What I tell them is that 1) There should be a receptacle on the island. 2) I am afraid for the safety of my children pulling hot appliances over on them. 3) I will be adding more receptacles to compansate for the lost recptacle on the island. Then you take the variation to the AHJ and he would sign it and the Construction official signs it ( there is usually a fee) and you don't need an outlet on the island.

If there was not not an outlet on this penninsula, would you consider this a hazard?

The code only states what solutions contractors and inspectors agree are safe. It does not say other solutions are unsafe.

Depending on the exact design I would be happy with recepts that are the same height as wall mounted recepts or even no recpets.

It is alwyas good to have an agreement with the AHJ before doing much work.