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Help Me! I cut my finers, and the NEC won't be of any help to me!! #85876
08/16/03 02:53 PM
08/16/03 02:53 PM
Joe Tedesco  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,749
Boston, Massachusetts USA
Look at this proposal!

Quote
1-162 Log #1459 NEC-P01

(110-12(D))

Final Action: Reject

Submitter: Jamie McNamara Hastings, MN

Recommendation:

I underlined added text

110.12 (D) Sharp Edges. Field modified electrical equipment shall be designed installed and maintained that users, installers and maintenance personnel will not be likely to come into contact with sharp edges.

Substantiation:

Some equipment is modified in the field that the installer or users of the equipment come into contact with sharp edges. Often cutting there fingers or hands. Some examples are punched or cut enclosures and knockouts that leave a sharp edge near the front of th enclosure that one has to reach over or by to work on or in the equipment.

Panel Meeting Action: Reject

Panel Statement:

The proposal does not address an electrical hazard and is not consistent with the stated purpose of the Code in 90.1(A).

Number Eligible to Vote: 12

Affirmative: 12 Ballot Results: Affirmative: 12


My Comments:

I think that the committee members who were at the ROP meetings should be reminded that the subject of those sharp edges is a real problem.

If I was making electrical inspections and rejected the equipment, you'd see how fast our Testing Agency Friends would revise their standards.

Some of the CMP-1 Members would agree that the cut they have on their finger or palm was caused by the sharp edges when they (if they worked with the tools) long ago.

I will send in a comment on this after I review my library of images to be used as substantiation.

If any members here have those types of images please send them to me -- we are now entering the comment battlefield!!


Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant
2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
Re: Help Me! I cut my finers, and the NEC won't be of any help to me!! #85877
08/16/03 05:46 PM
08/16/03 05:46 PM
S
stamcon  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 330
So San Francisco CA
Joe, 110-3(99NEC) Examination, Identification, Installation, And Use of Equipment

(a)Examination. In judging equipment, considerations such as the following shall be evaluated.

(8) Other factors that contribute to the practical safeguarding of persons using or likely to come in contact with the equipment.

Couldn't the section (8) be used for non-electrical safety (shock/flash/electricution)
hazards for persons having contact with the equipment?


Steve
Re: Help Me! I cut my finers, and the NEC won't be of any help to me!! #85878
08/16/03 05:46 PM
08/16/03 05:46 PM
G
George  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 375
I think one problem is in defining a "sharp" edge.

Let's look at a simple contrived example.

Take a sheet metal box with a hinged cover. Put a rolled edge on both the box and cover.
Certainly, not very sharp.

If you try real hard you can shear off a finger. If you can shear off a finger, it must be a sharp edge, right?

Re: Help Me! I cut my finers, and the NEC won't be of any help to me!! #85879
08/16/03 07:07 PM
08/16/03 07:07 PM
W
wa2ise  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 785
Oradell NJ USA
Wouldn't a sharp edge that can cut a finger also likely to damage insulation on a wire?
Thus causing an electrical hazard?

Re: Help Me! I cut my finers, and the NEC won't be of any help to me!! #85880
08/16/03 08:21 PM
08/16/03 08:21 PM
Joe Tedesco  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,749
Boston, Massachusetts USA
Yes, and the term "sharp edges" is used in about 6 locations in Chapter 3.

110.3(A)(8) could be of use though, but we need to address the cuts issue and see if the original proposal can be rewritten to address the same items below then the problem would be almost solved and the cuts may be fewer.

Here are some of the rules:

Cellular metal floor raceways shall provide a complete enclosure for the conductors. The interior surfaces shall be free from burrs and sharp edges, and surfaces over which conductors are drawn shall be smooth.


Cable trays shall not have sharp edges, burrs, or projections that could damage the insulation or jackets of the wiring.

Where wires pass through an opening in an enclosure, conduit box, or barrier, a bushing shall be used to protect the conductors from the edges of openings having sharp edges.

Where insulated conductors are clamped to the structure, the conductor insulation shall be supplemented by an additional wrap or layer of equivalent material, except that jacketed cables shall not be required to be so protected. Wiring shall be routed away from sharp edges, moving parts, or heat sources.


Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant
Re: Help Me! I cut my finers, and the NEC won't be of any help to me!! #85881
08/17/03 10:05 PM
08/17/03 10:05 PM
P
PCBelarge  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 681
Dobbs Ferry, NY, USA
Joe
What if the wording was changed from Maintenance personnel to conductors. By changing the wording, maybe they will accept it. Protecting conductors is much more important, you will have to have a body count otherwise. Politicians do this all the time.


Pierre Belarge
Re: Help Me! I cut my finers, and the NEC won't be of any help to me!! #85882
08/18/03 06:39 AM
08/18/03 06:39 AM
Joe Tedesco  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,749
Boston, Massachusetts USA
How does this look? The rule would cover all equipment not just the few items where the term "sharp edges" is used in the NEC.

Quote
110.12 (D) Sharp Edges. Field modified electrical equipment shall be designed and installed so that conductors will not come into contact with sharp edges. All sharp edges shall be removed.


Sharp edges are not permitted on new equipment of various types. Search for "sharp edges" in the NEC CD Rom version.


Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant
Re: Help Me! I cut my finers, and the NEC won't be of any help to me!! #85883
08/18/03 07:52 AM
08/18/03 07:52 AM
R
resqcapt19  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,148
IL
Joe,
why limit this to "field modified" equipment? The manufacturers leave very sharp edges on many items. I can't think of too many cases where field created edges are left exposed, but many where the manufacturer created edges are left exposed.
Don


Don(resqcapt19)
Re: Help Me! I cut my finers, and the NEC won't be of any help to me!! #85884
08/18/03 08:09 AM
08/18/03 08:09 AM
P
pauluk  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,520
Norfolk, England
I don't know if you're finding this in NEMA land, but in Britain the manufacturers seem to be economizing in this respect.

Mounting boxes and such like used to come with the edges de-burred, but more and more of them these days come out of the box with sharp edges.

Re: Help Me! I cut my finers, and the NEC won't be of any help to me!! #85885
08/18/03 08:19 AM
08/18/03 08:19 AM
Joe Tedesco  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,749
Boston, Massachusetts USA
How's this sound then:

Quote
110.12 (D) Sharp Edges. All electrical equipment shall be manufactured and designed so that conductors will not come into contact with sharp edges. All sharp edges shall be removed.


Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant
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