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#77367 - 05/25/01 12:04 AM GFCI's  
Steve T  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 306
Oak Park, IL, USA
Is it ok to feed a regular receptacle off of the load side of a GFCI if they are not in the same room or even on the same floor? In essence does the trip/reset location of the GFCI protection need to be marked on a receptacle? or at least obvious?

Second, is it illegal to feed one GFCI receptacle off of the load side of another GFCI receptacle?


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#77368 - 05/25/01 12:14 AM Re: GFCI's  
Anonymous
Unregistered

>Is it ok to feed a regular receptacle off of the load side of a GFCI if they are not in the same room or even on the same floor?
I've done it on the same floor. That's what those little stickers are for.
Also putting the GFCI inside and a load receptacle outside is okay. But on a different floor? That's unusual unless it's a stairway or something like that. Old work, huh?

>In essence does the trip/reset location of the GFCI protection need to be marked on a receptacle? or at least obvious?
Nope.

>Second, is it illegal to feed one GFCI receptacle off of the load side of another GFCI receptacle?
No. But if you do, then a myth will arise that GFCIs in series are safer than one GFCI alone. So why would you want to?


#77369 - 05/25/01 12:43 AM Re: GFCI's  
sparky66wv  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,236
West Virginia
Considering how few GFCI receptacles are actually tested monthly, redundancy may not be a bad idea... to help insure atleast one properly working GFCI.

Not that I'm trying to preach that, just pointing it out...

[Linked Image]


-Virgil
Residential/Commercial Inspector
5 Star Inspections
Member IAEI

#77370 - 05/25/01 01:11 AM Re: GFCI's  
Anonymous
Unregistered

>... redundancy may not be a bad idea... to help insure at least one properly working GFCI. [Linked Image]

I just knew this would happen!
Be sure to use a GFCI breaker for this circuit for extra redundant redundancy.


By the way, with GFCIs in series, the test button on the second will not trip the first (and this is fine) (nor vice versa, of course).

However, if you use a GFCI receptacle tester, it should trip one or the other and hopefully both.


#77371 - 05/25/01 01:21 AM Re: GFCI's  
sparky66wv  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,236
West Virginia
I bet you knew it'd be me too!

The battle of the devil's advocates?

Just kidding, all in good fun, Dspark..

[Linked Image]


-Virgil
Residential/Commercial Inspector
5 Star Inspections
Member IAEI

#77372 - 05/25/01 07:08 AM Re: GFCI's  
sparky  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,311
There are GFI breakers that serve area's remotely from the panelboard, sometimes said circuits already have a GFI receptacle on them.
a side note;
Here in VT, as of 2001, we are required to AFCI all bed AND living area's, so there are many GFI receptacles now that are served from an AFCI breaker.
I am also curious as far as a listing violation .
[Linked Image]


#77373 - 05/25/01 08:17 AM Re: GFCI's  
Redsy  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,056
Bucks County PA
I once saw an ad for a higher level(more expensive)GFCI tester that said it tested GFCI trip levels and that if one tripped at 3mA there were too many in series. I don't know anything about this, or how many it would take to cause premature or nuisance tripping. Anyone?


#77374 - 05/25/01 09:28 AM Re: GFCI's  
Bill Addiss  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,878
NY, USA
Redsy,

Just a little trivia here. We had a rep from UL at a meeting last week and GFCI's was the main topic. (This was also in the Theory section)

GFCI protection for personnel is set to trip between 4ma and 6ma. An interesting thing mentioned was that the speed with which they operate depends upon the level of the fault. A low threshold 4ma fault could take up to something like 4.8 seconds to trip depending upon the sensitivity of the particular unit.


Another piece of trivia. An Electrical product is permitted to have a loss up to .5ma and still be listed. The importance of this tidbit comes into play where there is a 'nusance' tripping going on. As the GFCI operates on a cumulative value of stray current it could seem to be tripping for no reason but it may be operating perfectly. There could be 8 items on the circuit with a .5 'loss' each (8 x .5 = 4ma) and tripping could occur and there is nothing wrong. It's something to think about when deciding on CB vs Receptacle type GFCIs' and the number of downstream devices and length of a circuit protected by a single GFCI.

That's a good point to bring up because it is very common (around here anyway) to see a single GFCI protecting all the Bathroom, Basement, Garage and outdoor receptacles. (3 different levels) Most times it'll be fine (except for the Hairdryer and the dehumidifier in the basement on the same circuit that is) There is a distinct possibility that a GFCI towards the sensitive (4ma) trip rating might be nuisance tripping in a situation like this and replacing with another (possibly less sensitive) may solve the problem.

Sometimes I've noticed some inexplicable tripping going on especially where there are GFCIs feeding each other. Removing one seemed to solve the problem.


Bill


#77375 - 05/25/01 11:45 AM Re: GFCI's  
Redsy  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,056
Bucks County PA
Bill,
I do some real-eatate related work, and the local twp. inspectors are requiring GFCI protection on laundry room receptacles, and on sump pump receptacles befor they will issue a occupancy permit. I think there may be enough stray leakage current from some of these motors to cause nuisance tripping, and in the case of the sump pump, a major problem developing when the pump loses power when its needed most.


#77376 - 05/26/01 01:06 AM Re: GFCI's  
Anonymous
Unregistered

>many GFI receptacles now that are served from an AFCI breaker.
I am also curious as far as a listing violation.


I see no possible problem. They are unrelated devices anyway and do not interfere.


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