Is it ok to feed a regular receptacle off of the load side of a GFCI if they are not in the same room or even on the same floor? In essence does the trip/reset location of the GFCI protection need to be marked on a receptacle? or at least obvious?

Second, is it illegal to feed one GFCI receptacle off of the load side of another GFCI receptacle?

>Is it ok to feed a regular receptacle off of the load side of a GFCI if they are not in the same room or even on the same floor?
I've done it on the same floor. That's what those little stickers are for.
Also putting the GFCI inside and a load receptacle outside is okay. But on a different floor? That's unusual unless it's a stairway or something like that. Old work, huh?

>In essence does the trip/reset location of the GFCI protection need to be marked on a receptacle? or at least obvious?
Nope.

>Second, is it illegal to feed one GFCI receptacle off of the load side of another GFCI receptacle?
No. But if you do, then a myth will arise that GFCIs in series are safer than one GFCI alone. So why would you want to?

Considering how few GFCI receptacles are actually tested monthly, redundancy may not be a bad idea... to help insure atleast one properly working GFCI.

Not that I'm trying to preach that, just pointing it out...

>... redundancy may not be a bad idea... to help insure at least one properly working GFCI.

I just knew this would happen!
Be sure to use a GFCI breaker for this circuit for extra redundant redundancy.


By the way, with GFCIs in series, the test button on the second will not trip the first (and this is fine) (nor vice versa, of course).

However, if you use a GFCI receptacle tester, it should trip one or the other and hopefully both.

I bet you knew it'd be me too!

The battle of the devil's advocates?

Just kidding, all in good fun, Dspark..

There are GFI breakers that serve area's remotely from the panelboard, sometimes said circuits already have a GFI receptacle on them.
a side note;
Here in VT, as of 2001, we are required to AFCI all bed AND living area's, so there are many GFI receptacles now that are served from an AFCI breaker.
I am also curious as far as a listing violation .

I once saw an ad for a higher level(more expensive)GFCI tester that said it tested GFCI trip levels and that if one tripped at 3mA there were too many in series. I don't know anything about this, or how many it would take to cause premature or nuisance tripping. Anyone?

Redsy,

Just a little trivia here. We had a rep from UL at a meeting last week and GFCI's was the main topic. (This was also in the Theory section)

GFCI protection for personnel is set to trip between 4ma and 6ma. An interesting thing mentioned was that the speed with which they operate depends upon the level of the fault. A low threshold 4ma fault could take up to something like 4.8 seconds to trip depending upon the sensitivity of the particular unit.


Another piece of trivia. An Electrical product is permitted to have a loss up to .5ma and still be listed. The importance of this tidbit comes into play where there is a 'nusance' tripping going on. As the GFCI operates on a cumulative value of stray current it could seem to be tripping for no reason but it may be operating perfectly. There could be 8 items on the circuit with a .5 'loss' each (8 x .5 = 4ma) and tripping could occur and there is nothing wrong. It's something to think about when deciding on CB vs Receptacle type GFCIs' and the number of downstream devices and length of a circuit protected by a single GFCI.

That's a good point to bring up because it is very common (around here anyway) to see a single GFCI protecting all the Bathroom, Basement, Garage and outdoor receptacles. (3 different levels) Most times it'll be fine (except for the Hairdryer and the dehumidifier in the basement on the same circuit that is) There is a distinct possibility that a GFCI towards the sensitive (4ma) trip rating might be nuisance tripping in a situation like this and replacing with another (possibly less sensitive) may solve the problem.

Sometimes I've noticed some inexplicable tripping going on especially where there are GFCIs feeding each other. Removing one seemed to solve the problem.


Bill

Bill,
I do some real-eatate related work, and the local twp. inspectors are requiring GFCI protection on laundry room receptacles, and on sump pump receptacles befor they will issue a occupancy permit. I think there may be enough stray leakage current from some of these motors to cause nuisance tripping, and in the case of the sump pump, a major problem developing when the pump loses power when its needed most.

>many GFI receptacles now that are served from an AFCI breaker.
I am also curious as far as a listing violation.

I see no possible problem. They are unrelated devices anyway and do not interfere.

inspectors are requiring GFCI protection on laundry room receptacles, and on sump pump receptacles before they will issue a occupancy permit.
Yea!!!!!!!!!!!

>I think there may be enough stray leakage current from some of these motors to cause nuisance tripping, and in the case of the sump pump, a major problem developing when the pump loses power when its needed most.
I think you are wrong. Don't put more than two devices on a single GFCI. Put the sump on a dedicated GFCI that cannot get wet - ever.

Redsy,

I would be inclined to think that there may be some problem with the sump pump or it's supply cord. Perhaps a closer inspection would reveal something.

Bill

Redsy,

Perhaps, depending on location and other factors, they may allow a single receptacle that is non-GFCI protected. I believe that the code would permit this.

Bill

today's basic electrical rules,
water & people = GFI
do not necessarily apply across the board.

some of this, as far as NEC rules, makes sense to me, some does not.

some , i suspect, are simply awaiting the Darwinian factor to come about.

So let your sump trickle away milliamps all day. Waste energy. Have a higher bill.
Sump pumps are very expensive. Ones that are electrically sound are even more expensive. Just put in a dedicated outlet and leave it there until it leaks bad enough to blow the circuit breaker.

Redsy,

Sorry, I didn't see that you had mentioned the single receptacle already. All this quoting and Bold lettering is a bit confusing. Have you tried suggesting it to them or expressed your concern?

I would see no reason to agree with them about the Laundry room receptacles. It makes things safer and tripping would cause no harm. As far as the Sump Pump goes I can see your point but it is a tossup as far as which is the lesser of 2 evils. Bottom line though is that it's their call. A GFCI could save a life. With nuisance tripping the most likely worst case outcome would be property damage. That may be the way that they're seeing it.

Bill

Bill,
I never debate the issue with the twp. I just do what they require. I just thought it was an interesting issue.

Redsy,

What's "twp" stand for?

I agree it's an interesting issue. I'm not sure which way I'd want to go on that. It would depend on where the pump is I guess and the likelihood of it being needed.

I will always try not to put a Refrigerator or Freezer on a GFCI because I've seen many instances where power surges and such have caused a GFCI to trip. I wouldn't want it to happen while I was away on vacation. I guess it's a calculated risk at best.

Bill

Twp.= township(inspector)

210-8's intent is to protect personnel, not dedicated equipment.

Why would a GFI be required on a sump pump if a hardwired pool motor does not rate one?

Sparky,

I'm figuring that they're probably looking at the location. As you know, receptacles in basements and crawlspaces often get used for things other than what was intended. I can see someone unplugging the sump pump to use the outlet for something else 'temporarily'

Bill