ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
Top Posters(30 Days)
twh 10
jraef 4
Recent Posts
Dryer, Range grounding from "Main" panel
by gfretwell. 05/24/17 09:35 PM
210.70 / Wall Switch / When adopted?
by gfretwell. 05/24/17 09:18 PM
Any UL 508 experts out there?
by sparkyinak. 05/23/17 11:04 PM
Heat pump conundrum
by sparkyinak. 05/21/17 08:49 PM
Interesting week
by HotLine1. 05/20/17 11:57 AM
New in the Gallery:
SE cable question
Popular Topics(Views)
236,738 Are you busy
171,748 Re: Forum
164,689 Need opinion
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 51 guests, and 10 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
#5704 - 12/02/01 09:11 PM How not to DIY  
pauluk  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,520
Norfolk, England
Last week I changed a main panel in a nearby house. The existing panel was an old wooden box type with porcelain rewireable fuses, and a separate voltage ELCB. The whole lot came out to be replaced with a modern C/B panel and main GFCI. The chap was most happy that I could do the whole changeover live and avoid a call-out charge from the utility.

Talk about being careless though. A couple of days ago he called me back, as during his on-going renovation work he managed to put a plasterboard screw straight into the main service cable.

He couldn't have gotten it closer to dead center of the cable if he'd been aiming for it! Said there was "One h*** of a bang!" I told him I wasn't surprised and to be grateful that he's still around to pay the PoCo call-out charge PLUS their labor & material for a new feeder.

I suspect he'll be rather more careful in future!


Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades

#5705 - 12/04/01 03:40 AM Re: How not to DIY  
pauluk  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,520
Norfolk, England
Oh yeah - I forgot to mention that when I went to do the panel change I found there was a missing main ground. Traced the main ground cable to where it disappeared into a newly formed cavity.

"Oh yes," said this chap, "I chopped through the wire to the earth rod several weeks ago when I built the new brickwork."

Hmmm...


#5706 - 12/04/01 05:17 AM Re: How not to DIY  
sparky  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,308
The old 'screwed wire' scenario sounds all too familar, I use up a box of nail plates on the average job, even though my finished depth is ok.


#5707 - 12/04/01 06:57 AM Re: How not to DIY  
George Corron  Offline
Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 717
Lorton, Va USA
A student of mine was called to a house to perform some work. He was working near the meter, and being somewhat cautious, but not overly concerned, he noticed that the cable entered the wall at a 90 deg. angle below the meter, went into the basement, and noticed it exited at a 90 deg. angle from the wall, all normal. What he could not see was they had taken a turn once in the wall. The NEC says you must terminate SEC as soon a practical, but as everyone knows, does not give footage, most jurisdictions in VA establish their own. These guys were just trying to hide their routing. He begins drilling with a 1/2" drill and Ship Augur bit. There are a few sparks and the drill is hung tight. He notices the bit begin to turn cherry red, then move up to the drill. The only thing he could think to do is to cut the seal and pull the meter, good choice. Gives new meaning to the term "infinite buss". I did get to see the drill (fried) and the bit that night, the bit had "drooped" under the weight of the drill. The PoCo did not even get mad at him.


#5708 - 12/04/01 09:01 AM Re: How not to DIY  
resqcapt19  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,148
IL
George,
Pulling the meter in a case like that is very dangerous. The meter socket is not designed to be a load break device. I see few choices in this case, but I sure hope the guy pulling the meter had full PPE on. Fire resistant clothing, full electrical rated face shield and hood and heavy gloves would be required for this type of work.
Don(resqcapt19)


Don(resqcapt19)

#5709 - 12/04/01 10:52 AM Re: How not to DIY  
Dallas  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 151
North Salem, IN 46165
Now come on Don,

While I understand the underlying message from you, and totally agree that removing a meter under load can be dangerous, you really expect a fairly young guy to run to the truck, pull on full PPE gear, (as the wall begins to smolder, the redness brightens in the augur bit as it moves closer to the drill motor), THEN cut the seal and pull the meter?

I'd be tickled if he was wearing the protective eyewear and standard leather gloves I constantly remind my guys to wear while using power tools.

Dallas


#5710 - 12/04/01 11:05 AM Re: How not to DIY  
resqcapt19  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,148
IL
Yes I can and do expect that. It is required and it is much better to let the house burn than to get the guy hurt or even killed.
Don(resqcapt19)


Don(resqcapt19)

#5711 - 12/04/01 06:34 PM Re: How not to DIY  
pauluk  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,520
Norfolk, England
There wouldn't have been any chance to pull the main service fuse here, as this was on the feeder ahead of the meter panel. (In this case, there was an unusually long length of service cable inside the house structure.)

He'd built a new roof by laying rafters over the old ceilings, then realized all the cables (including the service feeder) were now trapped underneath the new timber. So he just notched the lower edge of each one for the cables before fixing the plasterboard over them.

The cable was the concentric type with neutral on the wire armor, so at least the screw he was touching made secure contact with the neutral before the point hit the live center conductor. It didn't take out any distribution fuses on the network - The feed was still live. It just vaporized the finely tapered end of the plasterboard screw.

[This message has been edited by pauluk (edited 12-04-2001).]


#5712 - 12/05/01 11:26 AM Re: How not to DIY  
mamills  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 745
Wharton, Texas, USA
Hi, Don.
I have to second what you said about requiring protective equipment for doing this kind of work. A few years ago, we had a late night fire at a house where there was no outside service disconnect. It is not accepted procedure for our Fire Department to attempt to remove a meter (especially one such as this which was passing tremendous fault currents through it from the burned-out wiring inside the house) for the reasons you mentioned. Before anyone could stop him, A young firefighter decided to "free-lance it" and remove the meter, while wearing only normal firefighting gear (hardly suitable for electric work). At the moment the meter jaw contact was broken, there was a spectacular flash [Linked Image] that scared &*&*$*$% out of other firefighters nearby. I still to this day don't know what saved the firefighter from quite literally having his face burned off.
Our PoCo has extremely slow response times when called to emergency service disconnects such as this. But your priorities are absolutely correct; I'd much rather lose a house than to lose a brother firefighter.

Mike (mamills)


#5713 - 12/05/01 11:42 PM Re: How not to DIY  
sparky66wv  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,236
West Virginia
A friend and Electrical Contractor who shall remain nameless was drilling through the top of a can to tie in a new genny transfer switch for a turkey barn. No power-off was allowed and Y2K was looming, so he chose to do the work hot. When the hole saw broke through, it went straight into a 120V leg of a 120/240V 400Amp service and burst into flaming arcs of molten saw teeth. He was miraculously uninjured, but was shaken up for days. He did the rest of the barns with the services open.


-Virgil
Residential/Commercial Inspector
5 Star Inspections
Member IAEI

Page 1 of 2 1 2

Member Spotlight
TOOL_5150
TOOL_5150
Bay Area
Posts: 61
Joined: August 2007
Show All Member Profiles 
Featured:

2017 NEC and Related
2017 NEC
Now Available!

Shout Box
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0
Page Time: 0.016s Queries: 15 (0.004s) Memory: 0.8191 MB (Peak: 0.9959 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2017-05-25 06:43:25 UTC