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Electrocution Question #26752
06/21/03 01:08 AM
06/21/03 01:08 AM
Trumpy  Offline
OP
Member
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 8,231
SI,New Zealand
Hi there Guys,
I had this really strange email just this last week, from a lady that I had never even heard of, she had this question for me:
If you are in a bath, and you have a heater or other appliance and it falls into the bath while you are in it, will you get Electrocuted?.(disregard GFCI/RCD protection).
Having never tried this out for myself, I would not encourage anyone else to have a go at it, either!!, I was just wondering how a shock would occur?.
Could you people please help me with this one, as it is really killing me thinking about it.

[This message has been edited by Trumpy (edited 06-21-2003).]

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Re: Electrocution Question #26753
06/21/03 11:08 AM
06/21/03 11:08 AM
Z
Zapped  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 482
Huntington Beach, CA, USA
Yes, I would imagine so.

Current will flow throught the water, and you, on it's way to completing the circuit (hot to neutral).

This experiment has been done by unwitting test subjects over the years, both accidental and not so accidental.

Don't try this at home!

Re: Electrocution Question #26754
06/21/03 11:49 AM
06/21/03 11:49 AM
S
sparky  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,342
Is how the human body would conduct current immersed the Q?? Does the mineral content of the water matter?

Re: Electrocution Question #26755
06/21/03 12:38 PM
06/21/03 12:38 PM
T
Thom  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 24
Westfield
I would think you would be OK unless you came in direct contact with the unit. You might get a tingle. Wouldn't the circuit still be complete in the case of a heater?

Re: Electrocution Question #26756
06/21/03 07:12 PM
06/21/03 07:12 PM
W
wa2ise  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 785
Oradell NJ USA
One's body, which for this is equivalent to a sack of dirty water with lots of salt and such in it, would probably pass most of the leakage current from the heater. Current would flow from the heater thru many paths in the water (which is likely to be somewhat dirty) to your body, and then thru your body to other areas of the body and exit thru more multiple paths in the water to a grounded faucet and drain hardware. And the porcelin coating on a metal tub is likely to have many small cracks, creating more current paths....

Re: Electrocution Question #26757
06/21/03 07:38 PM
06/21/03 07:38 PM
S
sparky  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,342
my first reaction to the Q would be how many variables exist, proper grounding of the heater, non-FPE breakers, number of conductable paths, as well as conductables.

would it be riske' to assume that normally there would be a spike of power, until an OCPD reacts, that would include more umph* within the unit, and decreasing umph as the distance from it increases?


*technically speaking.....

Re: Electrocution Question #26758
06/22/03 12:48 AM
06/22/03 12:48 AM
Trumpy  Offline
OP
Member
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 8,231
SI,New Zealand
Guys,
Sorry about the rather vague question.
But assuming that the heater is a Class II
appliance (Having Double Insulation, as the majority of Domestic Heaters these days, have an outer shell of plastic).
Also assuming that a person was lying in the bath and not touching the plug-hole or the taps(faucets).
How would(or could) a shock occur, is it merely by the current flow through the water?.
Remember that the current has to flow through the heart, to cause fibrillation, before a true shock would occur.
Thanks for your input fella's.
I'm still trying to work out how this lady got my e-mail address, let alone work out the actual problem! [Linked Image]

Re: Electrocution Question #26759
06/22/03 05:23 AM
06/22/03 05:23 AM
P
pauluk  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 7,520
Norfolk, England
Possibly from your ECN member profile?

There are bound to be currents of some magnitude flowing through parts of the water, but the actual paths and levels are going to be very dependent upon the salt/mineral content of that water, how far away the person is from the energized heater, and so on.

It's not something I'd want to put the test in a practical experiment.... [Linked Image]

Re: Electrocution Question #26760
06/22/03 05:56 AM
06/22/03 05:56 AM
T
Thom  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 24
Westfield
Why don't I get shocked when I turn on the hot water from the hot water tank? We have 240v directly in contact with the water.

Re: Electrocution Question #26761
06/22/03 07:04 AM
06/22/03 07:04 AM
Z
zapped208  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 197
Somewhere in USA
Thom,- You would be the first to know if 240v was in direct contact inside your water heater.


Shoot first, apologize later.....maybe
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