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#209628 - 04/13/13 06:54 PM Overwiring a house and other excesses  
wewire2  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 244
California
I was just talking to another EC about some of his jobs. He said they did a new home wiring job for a celebrity and it took 3 years to wire it. Holy Cow! I've been on some big customs for a few months but 3 years is crazy. Got any
good customer gone wild excess stories?


Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades

#209629 - 04/13/13 07:06 PM Re: Overwiring a house and other excesses [Re: wewire2]  
Tesla  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,273
Sacramento, CA
Such 'tempos' are typical of hospital jobs.

The issues are never about our craft... Everything turns on how quickly the hospital executives can make a decision.

Not uncommonly, EACH decision is kicked up to the Board of Management -- meaning that all of the doctors have a say.

Such meetings are typically held once a month.

So, the entire job is start-stop-start-stop.



Tesla

#209630 - 04/13/13 09:08 PM Re: Overwiring a house and other excesses [Re: wewire2]  
gfretwell  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,118
Estero,Fl,usa
The most "over wired" house I have seen is the one I did for me. There is about a half mile of THHN/THWN, just in the back yard. There is pipe going everywhere and I pulled in a lot of spares.
Once I had the yard torn up for the pool, why not go nuts wink


Greg Fretwell

#209631 - 04/14/13 02:06 AM Re: Overwiring a house and other excesses [Re: gfretwell]  
BigB  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 719
Tucson, AZ USA
We do sub work for city financed rehabs for homeowners that can't afford to pay. Even the tiniest houses I mean 800 square feet with gas heat gas range gas hot water and no AC they still get a 200 amp service. The last one we did had seven breakers when we left.


#209632 - 04/14/13 09:10 AM Re: Overwiring a house and other excesses [Re: wewire2]  
renosteinke  Offline
Cat Servant
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
Blue Collar Country
As luck would have it ...

I'm re-wiring a house that comes in around 900 sq. ft., and has gas for the heat, the hot water, and the range. Nothing fancy at all. Load calculation comes in at less than 60 as the house stands, and 75 amps with air conditioning added.

Yet, at every turn I was "advised" to put in a 200-amp service. Even City Hall pushed it. "The panel hardly costs anything more, and it can't hurt," I was told.

Only one such adviser brought up the greater number of circuits available in a larger panel. Mind you, the house originally had six, and time had seen folks cobble on five more. What make this point relevant is that this same person didn't like my plan to use sub-panels for 'circuit heavy' locations, like the kitchen.

Folks here will know that I tend to 'over-engineer' a bit, and I seem to excel at finding a more complex way to do every task. Yet, here I am, in the odd position of being told I'm not doing enough!

There's the other side to this coin as well: hackwork. The same folks who insist on the 200-A service will use undersize wire, skimp on staples, use the cheapest plastic boxes, and flimsy devices. They think nothing of running SO cord in the walls. They'll argue with you over your choice of wire nuts.

In my case, at least most folks shut up when I produce my Masters' card.


#209636 - 04/14/13 10:53 AM Re: Overwiring a house and other excesses [Re: wewire2]  
gfretwell  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,118
Estero,Fl,usa
They might want to put in a spa and that can get you up into the 150 or 200a range pretty quick. The little plug ins are 50a and a bigger one with a big heater gets closer to 80a.


Greg Fretwell

#209637 - 04/14/13 01:41 PM Re: Overwiring a house and other excesses [Re: wewire2]  
EV607797  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 745
Fredericksburg, VA, USA
We hardly ever see anything smaller than 200 amp services here, in fact I can't even remember the last time that I saw a new 100 amp service except one that was put in to power a roadside sign. There just doesn't seem to be a cost justification, not to mention the fact that our POCOs charge the same connection fee regardless.

Of course, services for traffic signals and CATV power supplies are different.

Our most predominant POCO, Dominion, actually provides the meter bases and I don't they don't even offer 100 amp versions for underground services. We're getting 200 amps at the meter whether it is needed or not.

Granted, electric heat, hot water and ranges are quite common here.


---Ed---

"But the guy at Home Depot said it would work."

#209638 - 04/14/13 04:51 PM Re: Overwiring a house and other excesses [Re: wewire2]  
Tesla  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,273
Sacramento, CA
The Pocos have realized that it makes absolutely no sense to haul lesser Service feeders around.

They stock only one size of wire -- and all of the do dads that go with it.

The heavy-up market is slowly winding down.



Tesla

#209642 - 04/15/13 03:35 AM Re: Overwiring a house and other excesses [Re: wewire2]  
gfretwell  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,118
Estero,Fl,usa
The standard residential drop is 200a, or so they say but it looks like 2ga aluminum to me. wink
When a guy I knew went to a 400a main, they were still reluctant to change that drop.
FPL gives you the meter can and 200a is the standard. (wire bending space for 4/0) That still does not affect what size service disconnect you put in the house.


Greg Fretwell

#209643 - 04/15/13 04:10 AM Re: Overwiring a house and other excesses [Re: wewire2]  
Tesla  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,273
Sacramento, CA
Greg, the way it works is that the Poco has residential wire crews and commercial wire crews.

The residential trucks are stocked with one wire size, period.

Poco's do not take 400A Services as a true indication of load.

First off, they consider them 320A Services -- for load calculations -- at the worst.

But, in most situations, the heavy-up occurred because the home went over 160A -- and calculates out to, say 210A.

For such a Service drop, the Poco is still going to use the same conductors. If the meter readings establish that the true load is way high, then the Poco m a y bump conductors.

But, they don't stock the next size up. That would be a special order. 350kCMIL is the next size bump. (Actually, a 336kCMIL is the Poco favorite.) The intermediate sizes are simply not stocked.

Pocos are not in the feeder conductor warehousing business.


Tesla

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