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#204946 - 01/23/12 08:37 PM Burning Wirenut  
sparky  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,311

Last edited by Webmaster; 03/04/12 12:16 PM. Reason: (fixed title)

Arc Flash PPE Clothing, LOTO & Insulated Tools

#204947 - 01/23/12 10:25 PM Re: Buring Wirenut [Re: sparky]  
renosteinke  Offline
Cat Servant
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
Blue Collar Country
This 'factoid' example of internet 'science' illustrates many things - none of which are discussed in the text.

The first is that this video dovetails nicely with a recent article in IAEI News discussing the imagined OPCI, or "Out of Parameter Circuit Interrupter. Beam me up, Scotty. I just can't wait for the next wave of hysteria-driven code mandates.

"The cause of most electrical fires." Really? Whay happened to overloaded extension cords or the mythical errant Romex staple? What of the penny fuse, aluminum wiring, or FPE breakers? Nope - it's been our wire nuts all along.

Bursting into flame at 55C? UL standards already require such plastics to be self-extinguishing, and I've yet to see a wire nut rated at less than 105C. That, btw., is higher than the rating of the wire insulation.

A fire needs air - and a closed box in a wall stuffed with insulation isn't likely to let much air in. You know those wastebaskets at the mall? Those are designed to restrict air entry- which is why you have probably seen one smoking, but not with flames shooting out. Same principle would work here.

I've opened up plenty of boxes, and found all manner of poor connections, but finding a heat-damaged wire nut has been quite a rare event.

"Joule effect?" What is a joule? Nothing but a unit of energy measurement. Get anything hot enough and bad things will happen.

GFCI didn't work? No surprise there .... they were never seen as a fire protection device. Breaker didn't trip? Well, breaker size aside, you can do some serious welding with the power used by the common hair dryer.


#204948 - 01/24/12 07:18 AM Re: Buring Wirenut [Re: renosteinke]  
sparky  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,311
Originally Posted by renosteinke
GFCI didn't work? No surprise there .... they were never seen as a fire protection device. Breaker didn't trip? Well, breaker size aside, you can do some serious welding with the power used by the common hair dryer.


Please note this series event was not mitigated by either gfci or afci

~S~


#204950 - 01/24/12 09:18 AM Re: Buring Wirenut [Re: sparky]  
KJay  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 763
MA, USA
I think maybe the first thing to do would be to stop using those crappy Buchanan wirenuts. I always replace those whenever I find them in a box because of that very situation. IMO, those things are on a par with T&B Marrettes and those generic no-name Chinese wirenuts as far as poor quality connections go.
I'm only guessing that the Joule connector is just a thermal device, but since it tripped the circuit breaker and wouldn't let it reset, it must also create a internal line to ground fault when it activates.



#204953 - 01/24/12 02:05 PM Re: Buring Wirenut [Re: sparky]  
Tesla  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,273
Sacramento, CA
Joule effect is a term of art used in thermodynamics...

And refers to a refrigeration effect caused by the expansion of high pressure gases down to room pressure -- or below.

It's sometimes used to create liquid air/ nitrogen/ oxygen.

It's not an electrical term of art at all.

Cheers.


Tesla

#204954 - 01/24/12 07:07 PM Re: Buring Wirenut [Re: Tesla]  
sparky  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,311
As the site imforms us, this is a simple test

we have a series connection that creates heat, and ultimately fire

~S~


#204955 - 01/24/12 07:52 PM Re: Buring Wirenut [Re: sparky]  
HotLine1  Offline


Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,874
Brick, NJ USA
Came accross a few of these over the years...
bad connection, sloppy workmanship, 'hurry up', etc.

Can't say it was any one brand of 'nut'. Remember yellow Ideal, & the mid size 3M.

I guess I missed the Chinese version.

Last edited by HotLine1; 01/24/12 10:37 PM. Reason: spelling..OOOPS

John

#204958 - 01/24/12 10:33 PM Re: Buring Wirenut [Re: HotLine1]  
KJay  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 763
MA, USA
Originally Posted by HotLine1

I guess I missed the Chineese version.


They are those no-name wirenuts that come in the parts bag with all the Chinese made fixtures, usually along with the supposedly 8/32 machine screws that donít even really seem to fit the manufactures own fixture straps all that well.


#204959 - 01/24/12 10:37 PM Re: Buring Wirenut [Re: sparky]  
HotLine1  Offline


Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,874
Brick, NJ USA
Thank you sir...guess that's why I missed them!


John

#204961 - 01/25/12 07:33 AM Re: Buring Wirenut [Re: HotLine1]  
sparky  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,311
Gentlemen.
the point of the vid is bad connections cause hot spots, arcs or no arcs, and this 'point of connection' heat becomes the culprit of electrical fires

~S~


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