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#189799 - 10/25/09 11:34 PM Generator outlet  
Trumpy  Offline

Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 8,211
SI,New Zealand
Pictures posted for farmANhvacguy:

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

I'll get hvacguy to explain what is going on here.

Tools for Electricians:

#189801 - 10/25/09 11:42 PM Re: Generator outlet [Re: Trumpy]  
farmANhvacguy  Offline
New Member
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 7
This is a outlet I pulled out of a 28KW winco PTO generator It had no neutral wire just this jumper connecting the neutral to the ground. Seems to me once the plate screw on that outlet got loose it would get a little sparky...........

#189803 - 10/26/09 12:09 AM Re: Generator outlet [Re: farmANhvacguy]  
frenchelectrican  Offline
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 939
Wi/ Paris France { France for ...
That what the older generators were used to do that but with current codes etc it no longer legit due the safety issue like what you ran into it.

and in 2011 NEC code cycle everything on generator it will have to be GFCI on 120 volt circuit not sure about 240 volt circuit they may include it or not.


Pas de problme,il marche n'est-ce pas?"(No problem, it works doesn't it?)

#189856 - 10/28/09 08:33 AM Re: Generator outlet [Re: frenchelectrican]  
Texas_Ranger  Offline
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,393
Vienna, Austria
GFI? Doesn't that require a ground reference? All small portable generators here are floating systems without a grounded pole, so all they can do is use protection like in an IT (isolated ground) system.

#189858 - 10/28/09 10:46 AM Re: Generator outlet [Re: Texas_Ranger]  
renosteinke  Offline
Cat Servant
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
Blue Collar Country
No, Texas, a GFCI does not need a 'ground reference.' All a GFCI does is measure current going out through the hot wire, and compare it to current coming back in through the neutral wire; if they don't match, it trips.

#189862 - 10/28/09 12:29 PM Re: Generator outlet [Re: renosteinke]  
gfretwell  Offline

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,069
If the generator isn't grounded somewhere the GFCI will not trip because there is no return path to unbalance the circuit.
I know we always say you don't need a ground to trip a GFCI but that is because the utility is a grounded supply.

Greg Fretwell

#189867 - 10/28/09 01:52 PM Re: Generator outlet [Re: gfretwell]  
renosteinke  Offline
Cat Servant
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
Blue Collar Country
I can understand that view; but by the same token, there cannot be any current flow without a return path of some sort back to the source. It matters not if the source is the PoCo or the generator.

No current flow = no shock hazard. As soon as there is current flow, the GFCI will trip- unless all of the current is returning via the neutral wire.

Naturally, no GFCI, on any system, will help you if you are the path between the hot and the neutral wires.

#189873 - 10/28/09 05:34 PM Re: Generator outlet [Re: renosteinke]  
zorinlynx  Offline
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 14
Pardon me if I don't see the issue here.

Are not neutral and ground normally strapped together at the distribution panel?

Since the genset is the power source, distribution panel and outlets all in one, wouldn't it make sense to strap them together there?

Or should they be strapped together before the run to the outlet?

Since the frame of the generator MIGHT be grounded, I would want a nice solid return path in the event that hot shorts to a metal chassis in a tool that I'm using. Better to trip the breaker than have 120V AC finding a convoluted path through my body, into the ground and back to the genset...

Correct my amateur self if I'm wrong. smile

#189876 - 10/28/09 06:55 PM Re: Generator outlet [Re: zorinlynx]  
gfretwell  Offline

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,069
We have to separate a generator out in the yard that is not connected to anything but the loads from a generator that is connected to the home wiring, no matter how.

If this is just an unconnected generator, like Reno says, there is no fault path and no shock hazard

Greg Fretwell

#189897 - 10/29/09 01:09 AM Re: Generator outlet [Re: gfretwell]  
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 251
Kingwood, TX USA
I have a Honda EU2000. Neutral is NOT connected to ground. Case is plastic. Although you could have an internal fault that would cause a ground fault (on ether leg)I like using this unit to power tools and such used in wet or damp locations due to its isolation. I have to admit, this unit is one of the best purchases I have made. Quiet, only 49LB, 12-14 hrs on a tank of gas,very stable voltage and 60 cycle ( 1.1 gal)Beats a 200 ft extension cord.

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