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#104356 - 02/04/03 08:40 PM Abandoned Extension Cords! Still Alive?  
Joe Tedesco  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,749
Boston, Massachusetts USA
[Linked Image]

Unused extension cords should have been removed after the last convention show back in 1980!

[This message has been edited by Joe Tedesco (edited 02-04-2003).]


Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant

2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides

#104357 - 02/04/03 08:44 PM Re: Abandoned Extension Cords! Still Alive?  
John Steinke  Offline
Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 518
Reno,Nv., USA
Here in Reno such work is not done by electricians, but be the "stage technicians" union. Does anyone know anything about their apprenticeship, etc?


#104358 - 02/04/03 09:32 PM Re: Abandoned Extension Cords! Still Alive?  
sparky  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,311
if in fact, they are disconnected from a source of power they are removed as an electrical hazard (or anything else)


right?


#104359 - 02/04/03 10:03 PM Re: Abandoned Extension Cords! Still Alive?  
Mike Wescoatt  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 161
Cedar City, Utah
The International Association of Theatrical Stage Electricians (IATSE) apprenticeship program varies from local chapter to local chapter. There is a movement underway to have an industry governing body (probably Entertainment Services & Technology Association, ESTA) to establish a compentency rating system to deal with the lack of personnel certification standards across the industry. They are discussing a certification for electricians, riggers, and a core program for general technicians. One of the problems right now is that IATSE serves theatre, convention, rigging, makeup, costumes, props, film, television, pyrotechnics, truckloading... (you get the idea) depending on the different cities that the local covers.


Mike Wescoatt

#104360 - 02/05/03 06:24 AM Re: Abandoned Extension Cords! Still Alive?  
Joe Tedesco  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,749
Boston, Massachusetts USA
Mike:

So you are saying that those who work in these areas are not even licensed electricians who are familiar with the hazards involved, according to the definition of a "Qualified Person" in the 2002 NEC - right?

Qualified Person. One who has skills and knowledge related to the construction and operation of the electrical equipment and installations and has received safety training on the hazards involved.

sparky: I still would ask that the cords be removed because IF they were connected to an outlet then the story is the same story -- it can lead to an electrocution!!


Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant

#104361 - 02/05/03 07:42 AM Re: Abandoned Extension Cords! Still Alive?  
sparky  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,311
Quote
sparky: I still would ask that the cords be removed because IF they were connected to an outlet then the story is the same story -- it can lead to an electrocution!!


'IF' would require a 'qualified person', thus no hazard.


#104362 - 02/05/03 10:46 AM Re: Abandoned Extension Cords! Still Alive?  
nesparky  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 642
omaha,ne
Oldest story in the book
Question is who pays for the work to fix this kind of junk?
If the owner does not want to pay - who is going to work for free?


ed

#104363 - 02/05/03 03:20 PM Re: Abandoned Extension Cords! Still Alive?  
SvenNYC  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,691
New York City
I see the ends of the wires have turned a nice shade of green. Is there a lot of moisture up there? Must be a leak or something. The strain reliefs are also all rusted.


#104364 - 02/05/03 03:38 PM Re: Abandoned Extension Cords! Still Alive?  
Mike Wescoatt  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 161
Cedar City, Utah
Joe,
You are somewhat correct about licensure. IATSE electricians are not required to be licensed IBEW electricians, but certainly can be. This is why there are some convention spaces here in Las Vegas will only use IBEW electricians to drop power to a client on the floor and then the IATSE or client people will then simply plug it in and turn on the switch.
I would say that the majority of IATSE electricians are qualified personnel, but are qualified for the scope of work that they encounter on a daily basis. Depending on the electrician they would be quite familiar with the NEC articles 518 to 540 which deal specifically with the industry.
Another thing to remember is that the products that are listed for use by these electricians are designed to be of a "Extra Heavy Duty Type" and isn't installed for very long of a time. The infrastructure and permanent equipment and wiring is still being installed by IBEW electricians. The temporary products are generally used as per the manufacturers instructions and according to the NEC.
As indicated by this picture, though, there are some unqualified people out there using equipment and wiring methods not allowed in particular applications. There are also those who have almost no clue what they're doing (i.e. non-electricians). I believe that this is apparent, in different degrees, in any industry. The ESTA Certification is attempting to help shrink this hole. I think all of us here take great pride in making our work neat, clean, and safe, but there are those "electricians" out there who don't as we have seen in a few of the photos here.
Qualified and Licensed are unfortunately not synonomous.


Mike Wescoatt

#104365 - 02/05/03 04:35 PM Re: Abandoned Extension Cords! Still Alive?  
C-H  Offline
Member
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,497
Stockholm, Sweden
Sigh. I see this every day. Most people and companies hire electricians to install hard wired appliances or expand circuits. Very few call an electrician when it comes to removing appliances or removing part of a circuit. Usually, the power is just cut by taking the fuse(s) out and cut the cable. At some point later the circuit is energized by someone replacing fuses in an attempt to get some other circuit to work. There's half a dozen live or maybe live cut cables hanging in our office room, similar to Joe's picture. The problem is worsened by the fact that the wiring is surface mounted or placed on "ladders". When a wall is removed or added, junction boxes are left hanging in mid air. From what I read here, Americans have more respect for electrical wiring.

[This message has been edited by C-H (edited 02-05-2003).]


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