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#99738 10/19/06 07:08 PM
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,148
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For you guys that install AFCIs and have problems with them, you need to submitt comments to CMP2. You can do it online until 5PM tomorrow.
Don


Don(resqcapt19)
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#99739 10/19/06 09:24 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,745
Likes: 13
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I have a comment addressing the effect of heat.


Greg Fretwell
#99740 10/22/06 09:22 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 681
P
Member
I have spoken with 2 different manufacturers of AFCI CB. The temperature difference from the standard CB to the AFCI CB is the electronics installed in the CB. They are changing the miliamp requirement of the electronics as the technology has improved, and the AFCI CBs that are to be marketed by the fall of 2007 will run cooler, yet still a little warmer than a standard CB. The heat of stacking the current type is of little consequence even now.
I am not a fan of the AFCI breakers yet, but there are issues with installation practices of wiring methods that these devices are bringing to the forefront... that is the poor wiring practices that some out there are performing and blaming on the AFCI tripping. I am not saying there are not issues with the current AFCI, but I (from inspecting) believe that there are issues with the wiring practices that these units do expose.


Pierre Belarge
#99741 10/23/06 06:09 PM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 482
Z
Member
PCBelarge: Although I respect your opinion and agree that some of the wiring methods I have seen are less than professional, I have been landing panels for about 15 years and have been complimented by nearly every inspector and other electrician that has seen my work. I follow manufacturer spec's when installing AFCI breakers, and any other type of breaker I might be working with, and I don't believe that my methods are causing the issues that I have run across with the AFCI's. I believe that you are correct in that the technology is still evolving, but I feel that the AFCI requirement is being pushed through by the manufacturers prematurely, and I also think that their motivation (profit) is less than admirable.

It's a great idea to be able to impliment any type of device that may increase the safety of an electrical system, but I still foresee trouble in the first stages of implementation of the new regulation, and I think it will be because the technology still needs a lot of work.

#99742 10/28/06 12:05 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,143
D
Member
Quote
"it appears that the intent of the AFCI in the NEC was to create a market for a product where the benifit of the device does not protect against all arcing problems".

I'll relate what I was told NFPA stands for after their "rescue rope" standard debacle in the early 90's:
Not For Practical Application...

#99743 10/28/06 03:10 PM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 391
B
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Quote
...There are issues with installation practices of wiring methods that these devices are bringing to the forefront... that is the poor wiring practices that some out there are performing and blaming on the AFCI tripping.
I wholeheartedly agree with this. I've done new residential with guys who would trip AFCI circuits at least 50% of the time because of their hack installation techniques: Grounds touching neutrals, paralleled neutrals, shorted neutrals.

All it did was emphasise the fact that this was the quality of their work on every circuit but the AFCIs were merely sensitive enough to catch it.

That being said, I still don't think that arc-faults are the panacea that everyone makes them out to be. I've never had one trip on arc-detection, but seen many trip on ground-fault detection. Might as well throw in a bunch of tried-and-tested GFCIs and be done with it.

-John

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