ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
Shout Box
Recent Posts
Alternative income sources
by HotLine1. 05/24/18 01:04 PM
Furnace igniter leaking noise to stereo
by geoff in UK. 05/23/18 01:18 PM
Opinions Please
by Keith_Mc. 05/23/18 09:22 AM
Quickbooks
by Keith_Mc. 05/23/18 09:19 AM
Accounting
by Keith_Mc. 05/23/18 09:16 AM
New in the Gallery:
Plug terminals
Housebilding DIY wiring
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 9 guests, and 8 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
AFCI Questions #98254
05/18/06 02:51 PM
05/18/06 02:51 PM
K
kyelectric  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 64
I am having some troube out of an AFCI installed on a house I recently finished. I know they nuicense trip sometimes but what would I look for to cause it to trip. It may go for days without tripping and then just trip for no apparent reason. The fire alarms, bedroom light w/fan and 1 outside light right outside the door are on this AFI.

Is there a reason that the inspector told me you can only install 15 amp AFI's for the bedrooms or was this just his preference. I pulled the 20's out and replaced them with 15's but I cannot find in the code book anywhere that prohibits 20 amp AFCI's in bedrooms. They make'em and sell'em everyday!
Thanks!

2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
Re: AFCI Questions #98255
05/18/06 03:40 PM
05/18/06 03:40 PM
G
gfretwell  Offline

Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,224
Estero,Fl,usa
I would look at the ceiling box with the fan and be sure there was no bare wire showing on that neutral wirenut. The guys at the IAEI meetings say that is the #1 cause.


Greg Fretwell
Re: AFCI Questions #98256
05/18/06 11:56 PM
05/18/06 11:56 PM
C
Celtic  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 361
NJ
Quote
I cannot find in the code book anywhere that prohibits 20 amp AFCI's in bedrooms


And you won't.

See: 210.12(B)


~~ CELTIC ~~
...-= NJ =-...
Re: AFCI Questions #98257
05/19/06 08:44 AM
05/19/06 08:44 AM
R
Reel-Break  Offline
Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 178
nc
Most of the time we find grounding wire touching neutral at receptical somewhere.I also just recently had a smoke detector that was the culprit.We always wire the bed rooms in a certain way just for trouble shooting purposes. I mean I always go from master bed light sw to smoke. From a certain rec to feed light sw. that way you come back and know exactly where to disconnect this part from that part.For example I can go right in and disconnect my recepticals from my smokes and fan lights.It helps.

Re: AFCI Questions #98258
05/19/06 07:19 PM
05/19/06 07:19 PM
renosteinke  Offline
Cat Servant
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
Blue Collar Country
It is also quite possible that some appliance is fooling the AFCI into thinking there is a problem. Electronic dimmers, variable speed motors, electronic fluorescent ballasts, and surge protectors have been know to cause such nuisance trips.

Re: AFCI Questions #98259
05/19/06 08:15 PM
05/19/06 08:15 PM
G
gfretwell  Offline

Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,224
Estero,Fl,usa
I didn't think about dimmers but I bet if this dimmer is tripping an AFCI it would make an AM radio painful to listen to.
There are some old "non-RF friendly" dimmers that put nasty stuff back into the power line.
IBM's dirty little secret was the "noise" everyone had their panties in a wad about in the computer room came from phase control power supplies (in our machines) that were not unlike a cheap dimmer.
They basically just chopped 3VDC or 5VDC straight off of the 208v phases with SCRs and used a big bank of capacitors to turn it into usable DC. When you looked at these spiky wave forms on a scope it was hard to believe it used to be sine waves.


Greg Fretwell
Re: AFCI Questions #98260
05/20/06 11:53 PM
05/20/06 11:53 PM
G
Gregtaylor  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 212
Boise, Idaho, USA
One other scenario is that the customers never tell you everything. Do they unplug the vacuum cleaner or iron or other small appliance under load? That's all it takes and the AFCI is mysteriously tripped. When you go to the house these things are no longer plugged in. Ask 'em.

Re: AFCI Questions #98261
05/21/06 01:46 AM
05/21/06 01:46 AM
G
gfretwell  Offline

Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,224
Estero,Fl,usa
Wouldn't that be a series arc?
I didn't think an AFCI could see them.

How much oil is in this snake?


Greg Fretwell
Re: AFCI Questions #98262
05/21/06 04:41 AM
05/21/06 04:41 AM
M
macmikeman  Offline
Member
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 717
Honolulu, Hawaii
Its the ground wire touching neutral. Betcha betcha.

Re: AFCI Questions #98263
05/21/06 09:49 AM
05/21/06 09:49 AM
F
festus  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 40
fairfax Va USA
All the homes I wired up use 14 gauge wire for bedroom lighting circuits because of cost. 14 gauge = 15 amp breakers. Now, if the home were wired with 12 gauge throughout, 20 amp would be acceptable.How many people want to spend the extra money for the increase?


Featured:

2017 Master Electrician Exam Preparation Combos
2017 NEC Electrician
Exam Prep Combos:
Master / Journeyman

 

Member Spotlight
Attic Rat
Attic Rat
Bergen Co.,N.J. USA
Posts: 524
Joined: December 2003
Show All Member Profiles 
Top Posters(30 Days)
twh 12
Popular Topics(Views)
246,899 Are you busy
184,236 Re: Forum
173,469 Need opinion
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1
(Release build 20180101)
Page Time: 0.026s Queries: 14 (0.006s) Memory: 1.0098 MB (Peak: 1.1847 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2018-05-24 23:12:06 UTC