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#98007 - 04/26/06 01:51 PM More AFCIs  
ghost307  Offline
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 907
Chicago Illinois USA
I've heard a vicious rumor that the 2008 NEC is going to expand the number of locations that AFCI will be required in residential work.
Is this just an evil rumor or is this "the beginning of the end" for shared neutrals?


Ghost307

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#98008 - 04/26/06 03:58 PM Re: More AFCIs  
earlydean  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 751
Griswold, CT, USA
Surely everyone by now knows that there are two pole AFCI breakers, just as there are two pole GFCI breakers!


Earl

#98009 - 04/26/06 09:10 PM Re: More AFCIs  
gfretwell  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,105
Estero,Fl,usa
The proposal was accepted, they are just haggling about the exceptions


Greg Fretwell

#98010 - 04/26/06 09:17 PM Re: More AFCIs  
renosteinke  Offline
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Posts: 5,316
Blue Collar Country
No, earlydean, I didn't know that. The last I heard, the two-pole AFCI existed only in some manufacturers' fantasy, and had not yet made it into the supply chain.

The AFCI issue is likely to become even more contentious than it has been so far, as differing technologies, and codes, conflict.


#98011 - 04/26/06 09:35 PM Re: More AFCIs  
gfretwell  Offline


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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,105
Estero,Fl,usa
Buy APC stock. There is going to be a surge in the UPS business.


Greg Fretwell

#98012 - 04/28/06 01:09 PM Re: More AFCIs  
resqcapt19  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,148
IL
Note that this is only the ROP, I expect that there will be a lot of comments and the ROP could be reversed in the ROC.
Don

[This message has been edited by resqcapt19 (edited 04-28-2006).]


Don(resqcapt19)

#98013 - 04/28/06 01:34 PM Re: More AFCIs  
gfretwell  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,105
Estero,Fl,usa
The other one that HAS to get amended is the universal requirement for tamper proof receptacles in dwellings.
That would add a few buck to a house wouldn't it. No more 43 cent receptacles, they would be more like $8 a pop.


Greg Fretwell

#98014 - 04/28/06 04:29 PM Re: More AFCIs  
mxslick  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 803
Atomic City, ID USA
Quote
Is this just an evil rumor or is this "the beginning of the end" for shared neutrals?


I for one would be very happy if shared neutrals died a fast and painful death!! [Linked Image]

However, this whole AFCI requirement is a huge joke. You have devices that are still prone to nuisance trips, which invite Joe Homeowner to take a trip (pun intended) to the big box and get a bigger breaker to put in the panel (and we've all seen that too many idiots know just enough to change a breaker) because JH isn't bright enough to know why the breaker keeps tripping.

GFCI's, having been throughly developed are however a great idea. Yeah, I know they have different goals, but ...

Oh, yeah, that reminds me..AFCI's also have GFI circuits too, right? Then how do you know WHY it tripped? As some of you have already posted, AFCI problems are a real bear to troubleshoot!!

Quote
The other one that HAS to get amended is the universal requirement for tamper proof receptacles in dwellings.


Don't even say that as a joke!! [Linked Image] You know someone will get the bright idea to submit that!! [Linked Image]


Stupid should be painful.

#98015 - 04/28/06 05:37 PM Re: More AFCIs  
earlydean  Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 751
Griswold, CT, USA
I haven't purchased a two-pole AFCI yet, but I recall handling one at a trade show. The homes I have wired only required one each, and I don't usually use multiwire branch circuits for residential anyway.
Haven't they started selling them yet?


Earl

#98016 - 04/28/06 05:44 PM Re: More AFCIs  
iwire  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
North Attleboro, MA USA
Quote
I for one would be very happy if shared neutrals died a fast and painful death!!


No way, never. [Linked Image]

12/4 Cable and I are to good friends for us to part company.

Besides it makes no sense electrically to do away with MWBCs.

Once the branch circuits reach the panel it is common neutral all the way back to the source. The neutral bar is no better or worse than a wire nut. There is nothing in an electrical panel that makes a common neutral 'bad' on the load side and 'good' on the line side.

About all we can say is possible harmonic loads on the neutral but that will happen to the feeder neutral as well. [Linked Image]

Running all two wire circuits is wasteful of resources and give us greater voltage drop issues.

Bob


Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts

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