ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
Top Posters(30 Days)
Recent Posts
VFD MotorFeeders
by gfretwell. 10/19/17 01:02 AM
Generator Cable Sizing
by brsele. 10/18/17 07:39 PM
What do you do?
by gfretwell. 10/17/17 01:08 AM
Good ol' copper pipe in the fuse holder trick
by HotLine1. 10/16/17 07:16 PM
Another generator question
by HotLine1. 10/16/17 07:02 PM
New in the Gallery:
Gallery Test
Popular Topics(Views)
241,448 Are you busy
177,431 Re: Forum
169,014 Need opinion
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 48 guests, and 12 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
#97378 - 02/18/06 05:37 PM hydro massage tubs  
harold endean  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,233
Boonton, NJ
If you have a hydro massage tub and the plumbing is all plastic, is the # 8 solid copper wire needed? Is so, where is it going to? What if you have a brass water spout flowing water into the tub? Any thoughts?


2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides

#97379 - 02/18/06 06:08 PM Re: hydro massage tubs  
Gene134  Offline
Junior Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5
Island Lake, Il. 60042
It is needed incase the moter has a short and the casing becomes hot without tripping the breaker. There should be a lug on the side of the motor itself to attach to and then, depending on your jurisdiction, to the cold water and/or the EGC.


#97380 - 02/18/06 10:28 PM Re: hydro massage tubs  
gfretwell  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,124
Estero,Fl,usa
If I read 680.62(B) or 680.26(B)(3) it sure sounds like the spout should be bonded. I suppose you have to have the plumber stub it out far enough in the back in metal for a clamp if there is no lug.

add
680.43(D)(4)ex gives a little different spin but since the spout is above the water line it is more likely to become energized.

[This message has been edited by gfretwell (edited 02-18-2006).]


Greg Fretwell

#97381 - 02/18/06 10:37 PM Re: hydro massage tubs  
George Little  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,489
Michigan USA
Greg- Need you to get the Windex out for them thar glasses. Look at 680.74 for HMBT's (I don't catch Greg very often)


George Little

#97382 - 02/18/06 11:16 PM Re: hydro massage tubs  
gfretwell  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,124
Estero,Fl,usa
I need a little spanking now and then. [Linked Image]

I guess a spout isn't a system?


Greg Fretwell

#97383 - 02/19/06 12:38 PM Re: hydro massage tubs  
Electricmanscott  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,457
Holden, MA USA
Harold no need for any bonding there.
Gene you are confusing equipment grounding and bonding.


#97384 - 02/19/06 06:00 PM Re: hydro massage tubs  
Speedy Petey  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 173
Upstate, NY
I was going to make the same comment.
The lug on the motor has NOTHING to do with grounding.


Speedy Petey

"Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new." -Albert Einstein

#97385 - 02/19/06 10:08 PM Re: hydro massage tubs  
BigB  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 719
Tucson, AZ USA
I had a home inspector write up a hydromassage tub saying it was not bonded. The tub was inside and the motor was outside. All the plumbing was plastic including the drain. The only two metal objects in the motor area were the motor/pump assembly and the junction box. So I bonded these two together. What else was there to do?
Now if the water supply pipes were metal, with the motor outside the building, would you have to bond the piping to the motor even though a person could never contact both at the same time??? These are the house plumbing pipes I am referring to, not the recirculation piping to the pump.


#97386 - 02/20/06 03:16 PM Re: hydro massage tubs  
harold endean  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,233
Boonton, NJ
There are some AHJ's around here making the EC run a #8 wire all the way back to the service panel. However if there is a small piece of metal pipe attached to the spout, do you think it should be bonded to the motor? Or is it small enough to let it slide, and not bond it at all?


#97387 - 02/20/06 05:59 PM Re: hydro massage tubs  
gfretwell  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,124
Estero,Fl,usa
As George pointed out a HM tub is not a spa and a spout is not a system so you probably don't have to bond it.
On the other hand if a few feet of wire would make you feel better you could.
The AHJ who wants to make the 8ga bond part of grounding system is wrong, at least the way I understand the issue. Our AHJs don't even like to admit grounding current could flow to the pool, and that is exactly what will happen. That huge Ufer, full of water, out there is going to be the most effective electrode on the property.

Mine got bonded back to the panel with a #8 anyway simply because the spa and pool are bonded and the spa heater has an 8ga EGC along with the pool light #12, 4 pumps with their #12s and the incidental bonding of all the electrical that is attached to the screen cage which is part of "the grid".
I don't think you can have too much bonding.


Greg Fretwell

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3

Member Spotlight
Attic Rat
Attic Rat
Bergen Co.,N.J. USA
Posts: 524
Joined: December 2003
Show All Member Profiles 
Featured:

2017 Master Electrician Exam Preparation Combos
2017 NEC Electrician
Exam Prep Combos:
Master / Journeyman

 

Shout Box
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0
Page Time: 0.027s Queries: 15 (0.005s) Memory: 0.8196 MB (Peak: 0.9954 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2017-10-22 20:59:47 UTC