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GFCI readily accessible? #96491
12/02/05 02:00 AM
12/02/05 02:00 AM
G
gfretwell  Offline
OP
Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,251
Estero,Fl,usa
Is there any place that says a device GFCI has to be readily accessible?
I am thinking about a device that is feeding downstream outdoor receptacles at grade.
Can the GFCI be mounted in the soffit, out of reach to the user without a ladder?
I saw this today and I can't find a reason it isn't compliant. Lousy "design" tho.


Greg Fretwell
2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
Re: GFCI readily accessible? #96492
12/02/05 03:47 AM
12/02/05 03:47 AM
M
macmikeman  Offline
Member
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 717
Honolulu, Hawaii
A gfi located under/behind a whirlpool tub is not really redily accesable, but it is ok to install one there. Just so long as it can be gotten to it seems to me that it is ok.

Re: GFCI readily accessible? #96493
12/02/05 05:44 AM
12/02/05 05:44 AM
I
iwire  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
North Attleboro, MA USA
Aren't GFCIs "controllers" (switches)?

Also the instructions require regular testing.

We do not install the GFCIs for whirlpools under the tub, we install 'faceless' ones in the wall beside the tub.

[Linked Image]

Quote
404.8 Accessibility and Grouping.
(A) Location. All switches and circuit breakers used as switches shall be located so that they may be operated from a readily accessible place. They shall be installed so that the center of the grip of the operating handle of the switch or circuit breaker, when in its highest position, is not more than 2.0 m (6 ft 7 in.) above the floor or working platform.




[This message has been edited by iwire (edited 12-02-2005).]


Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts
Re: GFCI readily accessible? #96494
12/02/05 09:33 AM
12/02/05 09:33 AM
E
Electricmanscott  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,457
Holden, MA USA
A GFCI can be a switch. As a gfci receptacle I would not say it is a switch. I see nothing that requires it to be readily accesible or any good reason that it must be.

Re: GFCI readily accessible? #96495
12/02/05 01:46 PM
12/02/05 01:46 PM
M
macmikeman  Offline
Member
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 717
Honolulu, Hawaii
For the record, I usually stick the tub's gfi across the other side of the bathroom, and feed another receptacle outlet under the tub with the first one. (this isn't the sinks gfi, thats another story). I am just saying is accepted practice to do it the other way around, and that requires sombody to remove the access panel cover to reset the gfi. To have to climb a ladder to reach a gfi as the original poster was wondering about - I can find no reason in the code book to prevent this.

Re: GFCI readily accessible? #96496
12/02/05 03:00 PM
12/02/05 03:00 PM
I
iwire  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
North Attleboro, MA USA
Mike and Scott in your opinion the buttons that say "Test" and "Reset" are not switches?

Merriam-Webster
Quote
Switch a device for making, breaking, or changing the connections in an electrical circuit


Read 404.8 again and notice it simply says switches.


Now take a look at the scope of 404

Quote
404.1 Scope.
The provisions of this article shall apply to all switches, switching devices, and circuit breakers where used as switches.


IMO the GFCI located up under an eve is a violation. [Linked Image]


[This message has been edited by iwire (edited 12-02-2005).]


Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts
Re: GFCI readily accessible? #96497
12/02/05 03:24 PM
12/02/05 03:24 PM
G
gfretwell  Offline
OP
Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,251
Estero,Fl,usa
I knew this would be thought provoking. Simply to say switches must be readily accessible brings you to the switch inside an attic access. You usually need a ladder to get to that.
I would also not have too much trouble if the soffit mounted GFCI did not serve any "at grade" outlets (only soffit outlets) since you need a ladder to use it. It would still be a bad design.
In this case the GFCI serves the required "at grade" outside outlets but the control is not "at grade" if you trip it.
I like Bob's cite but I am see everyone wouldn't agree.


Greg Fretwell
Re: GFCI readily accessible? #96498
12/02/05 05:59 PM
12/02/05 05:59 PM
G
George  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 375
I don't think that GFCI buttons are used as switches. So I don't think it is a code violation.

On the otherhand one does need to reset them. So good practice would be to place them with good access.

Re: GFCI readily accessible? #96499
12/02/05 06:15 PM
12/02/05 06:15 PM
T
Tesla  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,273
Sacramento, CA
I have to go with iwire....

Clearly GFCI are circuit breakers. That they are integral to a receptacle makes little difference. When they trip a non-electrician should be able to find and re-set them in reasonable time.

A circuit breaker that trips on faults instead of thermal overloads is still a breaker.

Circuit breakers are switches. They change state from on to off.

A light switch in the attic that controls an attic light while you're up there.... Not relevant.

I object to chaining GFCI around a house such that an upstairs bathroom circuit goes dead when a receptacle in the garage is tripped. To me that GFCI is not accessable. The homeowner ends up calling an electrician to reset the circuit. Who would know that the circuit was chained everywhere?


Tesla
Re: GFCI readily accessible? #96500
12/02/05 07:47 PM
12/02/05 07:47 PM
Tom  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,044
Shinnston, WV USA
IMO, a ground fault receptacle is not a switch.

From the UL White Book

"Ground Fault Circuit Interrupters (KCXS)...The "test" and "reset" buttons on the GFCI's are only intended to check for the proper functioning of the GFCI. They are not intended to be used as "ON/OFF" controls of motors or other loads unless the buttons are specifically marked "ON" and "OFF."

[This message has been edited by Tom (edited 12-02-2005).]


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