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#96356 - 11/20/05 10:55 PM Insurance Inspection  
Wireless  Offline
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 73
Los Angeles CA USA
A Customer is required by his insurance company to have his property inspected and brought up to code.
Is existing called up to code assuming it was up to code at one point.
And does it have to be brought up to the 2005 NEC or the version that the local municipality uses.
And finally does anyone have a good checklist?

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#96357 - 11/20/05 11:19 PM Re: Insurance Inspection  
mahlere  Offline
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 507
New Jersey

see if LA county has a rehab code. NJ does. That would probably be the code to follow.

good luck.

#96358 - 11/21/05 08:04 AM Re: Insurance Inspection  
Scott35  Offline

Broom Pusher and
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,708
Anaheim, CA. USA

I am located in Southern California too, and have dealt with City / County of Los Angeles DBS over the past 20+ Years.

First things to mention are:

As of October 1st, 2005, the entire State of California is (supposed to be) following the 2004 version of the CEC (California Electrical Code, or Title 24, Part 3). The 2004 CEC is based on the 2002 NEC, with Articles either accepted in full, adopted by certain state agencies, or ammended by certain state agencies.
The 2002 NEC is "Model Code", and the 2004 CEC is minimal compliance for CURRENT Electrical Installations (Permits Applied for as of 10-01-2005).

The Project you are involved with may or maynot need to conform to CURRENT CEC Compliance.

* If nothing has been altered or newly installed, then the compliance relates to when the structure was first built.

* If things have been altered or new installations, then these will need to conform to whatever code version was in effect at that time - or made to comply to current CEC.

* If > 50% of the structure has been altered, then the entire thing needs to comply to whatever effective CEC version.
(feel free to debunk this everyone!)

What does the Insurance Policy / Carrier state is required for Code Compliance?

Find out what exactly is requested, and start from there.

Does the policy require the entire structure conforms to the most current adopted electrical code - regardless of existing conditions?

Is it asking for "Simple Things" - such as GFCI Receptacles in Bathrooms, Outdoors, Kitchen Countertops, and such; or is it diving into extreme details - such as AFCI protected circuits, etc.

Has an Independent Inspection (not a CBO Inspector) been done on the structure? If yes, does the Insurance Company request compliance to the Inspection Report?

Does the Owner want to bring everything up to current CEC conformity, or maybe a few things?

Is there any indication of what the heck the Insurance Company is referring to, which requires code compliance?

Is this project Residential, Commercial or Industrial?

If Residential (at least single family dwellings in LA city / county), you have several state agencies that may be involved with compliance. Each one having different requirements.

Commercial projects might require compliance to current code versions - especially if this is a structure with recent T.I. work (Tenant Improvement), or is intended to be something "Built To Suit" or "Spec. Suites".

If the building will be "cleaned out" and left as an unimproved "Shell", only the remaining equipment - such as the Service Equipment and possibly any lighting, signs, HVAC branch circuitry and general use Receptacles, may be required to conform to current standards.

I would think the same applies to an Industrial setting, as would be for a Commercial setting, but not really sure.

A good idea would be to check with the Department of Building and Safety (DBS - the Building Department), and related agencies.

You're best option to find out what the heck is required per Local AHJ on this project, would be to query the Building Department - either in person, or by phone.
FYI, here are some links to California's Building Standards Commission, + the City of LA's DBS:

Building Standards Commission

Los Angeles DBS Mainpage

Housing Department - City of LA

City of LA Planning Department

LA Community Redevelopment Agency


Requirements of Property sale

Google search of relative Los Angeles items

This would verify what is required to be the minimal compliance, per the Local agencies, and give you something to shoot for.

Really need to know exactly what the Insurance people want, what the AHJ(s) want, and apply this to what the Client wants.

Sorry to not give exact answers, but I think this information should help out alot.

Good Luck.


Scott " 35 " Thompson
Just Say NO To Green Eggs And Ham!

#96359 - 11/26/05 09:05 PM Re: Insurance Inspection  
Scott35  Offline

Broom Pusher and
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,708
Anaheim, CA. USA

Whazzup on this project???


Scott " 35 " Thompson
Just Say NO To Green Eggs And Ham!

#96360 - 11/26/05 10:16 PM Re: Insurance Inspection  
dinotats  Offline
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 11
Fox Lake, IL usa
Hey wireless

I had recently been cold called for that same topic. The customer was inspected by their insurance agent and she gave me the instructions.

Bring Electrical system up to code
1. GFI in Kitchen and bath
2. Change Fuses to breakers.

Now there was nothing being done to the building contruction wise at all for years. So this is something just out of the blue.
In this case it was a commercial building with a 800A amp service. A CT Cabinet, 6 meter housing. A trough feeding variouse subpanels (with circuit breakers). There just happen to be 2 small disconnect with 40A Barrel fuses that fed Air Conditioners on the roof. So most insurance companies have their heads up their asses.

The 4th floor apartment of this same building happens to be on 1 single 20A circuit. Non grounded and various portions in Knob and Tube. I learned that from the owner's grandson who wishes the old lady would tear the building down

So I changed the fuses to breakers and installed 2 60A pull out disconnects and now she's fine.

#96361 - 11/27/05 12:07 PM Re: Insurance Inspection  
Wireless  Offline
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 73
Los Angeles CA USA

Thanx for your help. I called the customer back to get the exact details. The Insurance company wants an Electrician to inspect the property and verify it is safe. anything which is unsafe has to be fixed. Now I have a little problem the only thing that I noticed is 2 strip lights which have a pigtail instead of being hardwired. Aside from the cloth covered wire the screw in fuses (and the pushmatic panel?) Are they called unsafe? This is a storefront

#96362 - 11/28/05 11:08 PM Re: Insurance Inspection  
BigB  Offline
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 721
Tucson, AZ USA
Wireless, be careful about inspecting for safety. I normally decline a safety "inspection", explaining that I do not carry errors and omissions insurance like home inspectors do, and I am not a "trained" inspector. Sure I will check it out and point out what I see, but on the invoice I will detail what I did but also state that this was not an inspection and there may be other issues which are not readily apparent.

#96363 - 01/03/06 12:21 AM Re: Insurance Inspection  
tdhorne  Offline
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 345
Maryland, USA
Have not several participants here made reference to inspector certification exams. I agree with BigB in not offering work that requires a certification that I do not have.
Tom Horne

"This alternating current stuff is just a fad. It is much too dangerous for general use." Thomas Alva Edison

Tom Horne

"This alternating current stuff is just a fad. It is much too dangerous for general use" Thomas Alva Edison

#96364 - 01/03/06 03:27 PM Re: Insurance Inspection  
Radar  Offline
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 349
Los Angeles, CA
Ditto the last 2 comments. The insurance company may simply be looking for assurances that all is OK. Then again, they might like to have an electrical professional to pin it on if something bad happens. Too much risk for me.


There are 10 types of people. Those who know binary, and those who don't.

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