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Transformer secondaries...again #95759
10/04/05 07:18 AM
10/04/05 07:18 AM
R
Redsy  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,056
Bucks County PA
OK,

We know that Table 450.3(B) indicates that primary OCPDs alone, are adequate to protect the transformer. However, you always have secondary conductors.
We also know that 240.21(C) also permits primary OCPDs alone, to protect secondary conductors under certain conditions.
The question is, are we talking about 2 different issues (xfmr secondary protection vs. secondary conductor protection)?
I believe that Table 450.3(B) values for primary only protection are actually used only if & when you are taking advantage of the 4 exceptions in 240.21(C).
Otherwise, secondary protection is always required.
Anyone else?

[This message has been edited by Redsy (edited 10-04-2005).]

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Re: Transformer secondaries...again #95760
10/04/05 07:25 AM
10/04/05 07:25 AM
R
resqcapt19  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,148
IL
The rules in 450 have nothing to do with the rules in 240. 450 covers the transformer and only the transformer. 240 applies to the conductors and not to the transformer.
Don


Don(resqcapt19)
Re: Transformer secondaries...again #95761
10/04/05 07:58 AM
10/04/05 07:58 AM
R
Redsy  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,056
Bucks County PA
That's the source of my confusion, Don.
Under what conditions would you be protecting the transformer secondary, but not the conductors?

What application would you need to refer to Table 450.3(B) and not 240.21(C)?

Re: Transformer secondaries...again #95762
10/04/05 09:06 AM
10/04/05 09:06 AM
J
JBD  Offline
Member
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 599
WI, USA
(1) Start with primary protection only, 450.3(B).

(2) Then use 240.21 for the secondary conductors.

(3) Now go back and look at 450.3 and see if the OCPD chosen using 240.21 will allow (but not force) you to change the transformer primary device.

Don't forget that a main device in a panelboard can also be used to meet the 240.21 reuirements.

Re: Transformer secondaries...again #95763
10/04/05 09:36 PM
10/04/05 09:36 PM
D
Dave T  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 155
Waukesha, WI, USA
I have always looked at it this way:
When the transformer is sized for the load as well as the secondary conductors size correctly and secondary protection is properly sized to protect the conductors then the transformer is protected from overload.
Should you size the pri. OCPD to also protect the transformer from overload it is redundant OL protection. If the pri. OCPD is viewed as short circuit protection because the transformer already has OL protection then the pri. OCPD is viewed as taking the transformers off line should the transformer short circuit internally and fail.
I believe that we agree that transformer overload protection of a delta-delta transformer can be done from the primary only as the secondary doesn't have a neutral. Currents seen at the secondary are seen proportionately on the primary.
But with a Delta-wye that has a neutral the L-L currents seen on the primary don't necessarily reflect those L-N currents on the secondary so a pri. only OCPD can not adequately protect the transformer from OL.
And, as such, pri. and sec. OCPD are provided and one could opt for the 250% pri. OCPD but you must pay attention to that 25' tap rule.
In summary the sec. OCPD protects the transformer from OL and the pri. OCPD protects the distribution system from a transformer failure.
Dave T

Re: Transformer secondaries...again #95764
10/05/05 07:05 AM
10/05/05 07:05 AM
R
Redsy  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,056
Bucks County PA
Thanks for the input, guys.


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