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#95082 - 08/26/05 10:56 PM Old issue re-visited  
George Little  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,489
Michigan USA
Here's a picture of the violation I noted some time ago and I have been assured that the manufacturer will be making a change. Need "in-use cover" if installed in wet location. http://homepage.mac.com/georgelittle/generator_recptacle.jpg


George Little

2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides

#95083 - 08/26/05 10:58 PM Re: Old issue re-visited  
sierra electrician  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 219
North Fork, CA USA
But, the receptacle is not in use. Why change it?

Rob


#95084 - 08/26/05 11:52 PM Re: Old issue re-visited  
gfretwell  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,120
Estero,Fl,usa
I agree with Sierra. The in use cover makes perfect sense when a receptacle is in use but the regular snap cover does a lot better job of keeping the water out when it isn't. Didn't we just have a long conversation about a tiny leak around an EMT fitting? Why force the installer to use a leaky cover on a seldom used receptacle. That is a GFI "nuisance trip" waiting to happen.


Greg Fretwell

#95085 - 08/27/05 07:40 AM Re: Old issue re-visited  
Tiger  Offline
Member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 706
Crystal Lake, IL USA
I've never considered an in use cover to be leaky.

Dave


#95086 - 08/27/05 07:52 AM Re: Old issue re-visited  
iwire  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
North Attleboro, MA USA
I have never believed the NEC should be used as a manufacturing standard.

Here if that unit was listed by an NTL the inspector must accept it as is.

Where I live 90.4 has been amended, in part it says

Quote
shall accept listed and labeled equipment or materials where used or installed in accordance with instructions included with the listing or labeling.


[Linked Image]

Bob


Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts

#95087 - 08/27/05 10:38 AM Re: Old issue re-visited  
PCBelarge  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 681
Dobbs Ferry, NY, USA
Bob
I agree it is much easier for an inspector to "APPROVE" listed equipment, but sometimes the listed equipment may have a defect or may have slipped an item in after some UL inspections. What I do is refer the photo like we see here to UL and have them reevaluate the situation. If they say okay, than that is good for me.

NYS requires "inuse covers" for all residential outdoor receptacles that are exposed to the weather (not protected by awnings, etc...).


Pierre Belarge

#95088 - 08/27/05 12:01 PM Re: Old issue re-visited  
gfretwell  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,120
Estero,Fl,usa
Tiger, the snap cover is gasketed, I have never seen an in use cover that was. Most end up being a pretty loose fit that is terrible if the user isn't very careful to lock it down.
Maybe if you live in a place where the rain always falls in a gentle straight down way that isn't a problem but it rains sideways here as often as not.
Even your garden variety summer shower will be accompanied by 30-40 mph gusts.


Greg Fretwell

#95089 - 08/27/05 01:15 PM Re: Old issue re-visited  
iwire  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
North Attleboro, MA USA
Pierre

Quote
What I do is refer the photo like we see here to UL and have them reevaluate the situation. If they say okay, than that is good for me.


That is not an option for inspectors here, listed = approved. [Linked Image]

The problem I have is this.

We can look at the inside of almost any listed equipment and find NEC violations, that outlet may well be wired with 14 AWG and have a 20 amp OCP.

NEC violation yes, but fine if part of listed equipment.

If inspectors start second guessing listings where would they stop?

As you can tell I think our amendment is a good one.

It also takes responsibility or concern away from the inspector for listed equipment.

Lets face it a home generator is a dangerous piece of equipment, fingers can get into moving parts, you can be burnt, the exhaust can kill and of course the electricity can hurt you.

At some point Americans have to be responsible for there own actions.

That cover clearly states.

"Approved for wet locations only when closed"

JMHO, Bob [Linked Image]


Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts

#95090 - 08/27/05 01:42 PM Re: Old issue re-visited  
Tiger  Offline
Member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 706
Crystal Lake, IL USA
I opened a P&S legrand while-in use cover and while not gasketed there is a tongue-in-groove configuration that looks pretty good to me. I could install it and stuff it with some tissue paper to give it a hose test, but the UL listing is good enough for me.

Dave



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