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Joined: May 2002
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Don, I agree with the rejection of the proposal but that is not really the issue at hand.
The issue is more as to what is "at grade level", a concrete patio poured on grade, level with sod or what have you, would be "at grade level".
To interpret it as a requirement that an individual be physically standing on dirt is a little ridiculous isn't it?
Roger
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"To interpret it as a requirement that an individual be physically standing on dirt is a little ridiculous isn't it?"
Absolutely!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I go outside my house and stand on a poured pad for a patio, that is "grade Level"
There is a 2 foot raised deck with a railing. The receptacle is on this deck and not reachable from grade - add a receptacle
There is a 2 foot raised deck with a railing. The receptacle is on this deck and is mounted within reach from grade - job complete.
Pierre Belarge
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Roger, 2-236 Log #3197 NEC-P02
(210-52(E))
Final Action: Reject
Submitter: Phillip David Martin, City of Chattanooga, TN
Recommendation:
Revise text as follows:
(E) Outdoor Outlets. For a one-family dwelling - each unit of a two-family dwelling that is at grade level, at least one receptacle outlet readily accessible at grade level and not more than 6 1/2 feet shall be installed at the front and rear of each dwelling.
Substantiation:
It has been ruled in our area these outlets cannot be accessed by stairs and Code comply.
Panel Meeting Action: Reject
Panel Statement:
The present Code text requires that the receptacle be accessible "at" grade level. A receptacle that cannot be reached while standing on grade and be within the 6'6" height requirement would not meet the requirement of 210.52(E).
Number Eligible to Vote: 13
Ballot Results: Affirmative: 13 This statement makes the panel position very clear. If you can't reach the receptacle while standing on grade, then it does not meet the code rule. Don
Don(resqcapt19)
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Roger ---
The designer should mark the grade level on the plans.
If you want to argue that a concrete patio is grade level, I guess a concrete slab supported by 20' posts could be called "grade level."
I don't find the words "at" and "from" to be important.
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Don, you seem to be drifting.
In your opinion, regardless of others be it ROP's or other suggestions, what is grade?
Help me out here, if the pure intent was earth or dirt, why not say so?
George, the civil drawings show topographical points, and although I agree, the designer is not the NEC in this conversation, I'm not talking about job specs or contract documents.
Roger
[This message has been edited by Roger (edited 05-29-2005).]
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When I look up "grade" in regular dictionary's one of the definitions is "Ground level" or the level at which the ground meets a building.
If a cement deck is at this same level I would call it grade level.
I do not see anything in the panel statements that grade level must be dirt.
Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts
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We're talking about "grade level" as if that were something definite- and it isn't. The level of the ground varies, and a deck can be 'below grade on one side and a few steps 'above grade' at another.
There is also the problem presented by certain architectural styles that have decks, with severely overhanging roofs, completely encircling the building.
Either this rule needs to be dropped, or greatly re-written.
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The panel statement does not say "at grade level" or "at grade". It says "on grade", to me that means that you must be standing on the earth itself. Even if it said "at grade", a deck or concrete slab would not be "at grade", it would be "above garde".
Don(resqcapt19)
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Don, not trying to put you on a spot, but if the NEC doesn't make a special attempt to provide a definition, (not handbook opinion) aren't we left with the literary definition as in a common dictionary?
Roger
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Don I have the same basic question as Roger. What leads you to the conclusion grade is dirt? Picture a dwelling unit located in the city with only concrete and asphalt surrounding it. (Probably tough for some to imagine that. ![[Linked Image]](https://www.electrical-contractor.net/ubb/smile.gif) ) Where is grade there?
Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts
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CDS
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