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#90327 11/16/04 09:25 AM
Joined: Oct 2000
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Section 230.2(D):

Question:

Please give an example of when an additional service is permitted because of different voltage, frequencies, or phases.

Please Explain "Such as" ... ?


Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant
2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
#90328 11/16/04 10:10 AM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,044
Tom Offline
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Joe,

Had a Doctor for a customer that added an X-ray machine to his practice. That equipment needed a 3 phase service, so we ended up with 120/240 single phase service and a 120/240 3 phase 4 wire service to the same building.

Another contractor ended up doing something similar on a truck stop remodel to keep from building a 400 amp 3 phase service. Built two 200 amp services like the example above and saved the owner some money.

You're on your own for "such as"

Tom


Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example.
#90329 11/16/04 01:51 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
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The handhook expands on that;
"For different applications, such as different rate schedules, this requirement allows a second service for supplying a second meter on a different rate. Curtailable loads, interruptible loads, electric heating, and electric water heating are examples of loads that may be on a different rate."

I am not sure why that needs another service (they can simply split the metering after the drop) but since this is a utility decision it is really out of our hands.
Another place I could see 2 services is if the primary loads come in on a medium voltage drop with customer owned transformer and they want some 240 for their firepump.
I did see that once. I think the emergency panels ran off that too, with transfer equipment to the genny, but it was a while ago so I am not sure about that.


Greg Fretwell
#90330 11/16/04 08:08 PM
Joined: Jun 2004
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Like in Toms post, I have a customer with a carpet/tile sales building with a 120/240 single phase service and they needed 480 3 phase 4 wire service to the same building for a granite cutting machine he was setting up to do counter tops.So I added the 2nd service to the place and located it on the opposite side of the building too.
I asked for permission to add the 2nd service from the AHJ. I also placed plaques denoting the other service at each.
shortcircuit

#90331 11/16/04 08:43 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
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Any of the multiple service buildings I have been involved with have either needed additional capacity or it just did not make sense to bring all the power in on one side of the building only to have to bring 50% of the capacity across to the other side.

Sometimes it is truly multiple services other times multiple feeders.

We did a large refrigerated / mechanized warehouse with 7- 3000 amp 480 volt switch gears. I believe that one was feeders.

I was involved with a building in Somerville MA that had.

In the electric room

1- 4000 amp 208 service

1- 3000 amp 480 service

And up on the roof (13.8 KV up to the roof in concrete encasement)

3- 3000 amp 480 services.


Bob


Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts
#90332 11/16/04 11:00 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
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I added a 400A 120/240 single phase service in a golf cart storage building to power the battery chargers when they went from gas to electric carts. Original service was 120/208 3Phase 100A.


John
#90333 11/17/04 01:40 AM
Joined: May 2003
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e57 Offline
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OK Some more examples:

DC Service for older elevators, and machinery, I see alot of these around here.

And, my wifes building is a Disaster Control Center, and is fed from three different POCO line souces and two sets of back-up generators. (Only uses one at a time, but essentialy four back-ups)

OH Bob, I grew up in Slumerville, and E. Cambridge.


Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason
#90334 11/21/04 10:26 PM
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A building with apartments 2nd floor and above, the first floor added a pizza parlor. The original service is 208y/120v- single phase. The pizza place needed 3 phase, and we installed it.

Pierre


Pierre Belarge
#90335 11/22/04 01:36 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 58
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Re: 230-2(d)
it is fairly common to see older industrial buildings in our city that have 120/240/1ph or 24/3 delta; with additional 120/208/3 or 277/480/3 added for the requirements of the current business occupying the space.
Now that I work for the city Fire Dept. I really see a lot more of the reason for 230-2; especially 230-2 (e). In a fire emergency, the Fire dept. will kill the power prior to fire suppression. If there are multiple services with PERMANENT signage (not to be confused with felt pen labeling), they can ID all the services, at night, in smoke, and successfully kill all the power.
Better still:
One service point-multiple voltage/phase as required, all in one place, all clearly labeled with PERMANENT SIGNS.
Even better still:
Upgrade service; with feeders & XFormers's for lower voltages and single phase.
It's only money, but cheap safety.
It's liable to be more efficient power distribution, with consequent lower electric bills.
Additional comment about labeling:
CA Fire Code (2000 UFC) art. 85-requires Electrical Rooms and Mains to be labeled with legible and plainly visble signs (see "at night, in smoke" above.
Thanks for all the inputs, on all the NEC issues, all of you; I learn something every day.

#90336 11/22/04 02:14 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,749
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Thanks for all of the replies and information.


Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant
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