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#89522 09/24/04 02:04 AM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 545
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aldav53 Offline OP
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In the code book it states that a light has to be at least 8 feet above and 3 feet horizontly away from a bath tub. Can a chandelier be right above the bath tub if it is more than 8 feet? I've seen many recessed cans above a shower. This isn't real clear to me.


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#89523 09/24/04 07:24 AM
Joined: May 2004
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Article 410.4 (D) includes the following types of lighting fixtures amongst those not permitted with in the 3’ horizontal and 8’ vertical zone, for bathtubs and shower areas.
No parts of cord-connected luminaires (fixtures)
· hanging luminaires (fixtures)
· Lighting track,
· pendants
· ceiling-suspended (paddle) fans

Note that this section does not mention recessed fixtures or fan units.
Usually the recessed units installed in these areas are listed for damp locations with or with out GFCI protection (read the manufactures instructions), additionally the recessed fixtures are supplied with trims that enclose the interior energized parts, providing some protection from accidental contact. The list of fixtures mentioned in the paragraph generally do not provide such protection, and therefore are required to be guarded from accidental (while in the tub or shower) contact by vertical elevation or horizontal distance.

#89524 09/24/04 07:52 AM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,507
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I could add that the recessed fixtures used over the tub should have a Listed "shower trim" if you are using a glass type trim. I have written violations for using a standard glass lens trim with a foam rubber gasket when it should be the one with the neoprene (spelling) gasket. I would perfer to see this type of trim especially if they have a shower wand on the tub that could be directed at the light fixture. The area above the tub is so far only classified as a damp location and one could use an outdoor flood bulb and a step baffle trim I guess if they wanted to because the can is listed for a damp location. It's only the shower wand that makes me nervous.


George Little
#89525 09/24/04 10:26 AM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 545
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aldav53 Offline OP
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So it sounds to me if its anything other than a recessed can with shower trim, the fixture has to be 8ft or more high and 3ft or more sideways (from the waters edge?). So even if over 8ft it still has to be the 3ft?


The Golden Rule - "The man with the gold makes the rule"
#89526 09/24/04 12:16 PM
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 162
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There was language introduced to the 1996 NEC to include paddle fans in this section. The original proposal (don’t have that ROP at the time) was submitted by a wiring inspector and the concern was Paddle Fans (with lighting fixtures accessories) within reach of someone while in these locations (ouch!). The proposal was accepted but the 96 language excluded the term paddle and restricted all fans, recessed or pendant from the zone. It was corrected in 1999 by adding the word (paddle) type fans (hanging type).

I believe the zone is from the top of the tub rim, or the highest point in a shower stall.
The other types of fixtures were previously addressed in this section. The NEC likes 8’ above reach as a method of guarding (see 110.27 as one example).

If you have a handbook there is an illustration fig. 410.1 and some explanatory language to this section. Keep in mind that such examples in the handbook are not official interpretations, but I believe the information has merit. The handbook suggests that surface mounted (totally?)enclosed fixtures are permissible with in the zone and pendant type items listed in the paragraph would be acceptable if located 8’ above the rim of a tub( or the shower stall). If the fixtures or track do not penetrate the 8’ (hang below)they are out of the zone and need not consider the 3’ horizontal dimension.

Charlie

#89527 09/24/04 06:24 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 545
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aldav53 Offline OP
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Yep, thats the way it looks to me from the 99 handbook code.
Thanks,


The Golden Rule - "The man with the gold makes the rule"
#89528 09/25/04 01:58 AM
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 333
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Wall sconces are also allowed(not disallowed) to be closer than 3' horizontally and 8' vertically.

steve


Steve
#89529 09/25/04 07:28 AM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 613
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Surface fixtures and wall sconces are allowed if they are suitable for a wet location.Exhaust fans are also permitted but are usually required to be GFCI protected per instructions with the fan.

#89530 09/25/04 11:52 AM
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 333
S
Member
Would you consider tub wall/ceiling as a "wet location"? I don't and I don't think the NEC description of "wet location" would support it being classified as wet. I'm talking about a bathtub with no shower and not the wall surface immediately above the rim of the tub.

steve


Steve
#89531 09/26/04 07:10 AM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 613
S
Member
I think the walls around a tub are a wet location.When my kids take a bath in the cuzi tub, somehow water is splashed all over the place...must be the cannonballs my son does from the tub rim [Linked Image]

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