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#88854 08/06/04 11:02 AM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 6
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Junior Member
Shortcircuit and BigJim
You have made a good point concerning the installation at a dwelling as opposed to an RV park. The requirement for a 20 amp, 125v GFI recepticle is under Part 7 of 551, titled Recreational Vehicle Parks, (not dwellings). I hope there is more input on this issue.
Many thanks
Buck

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#88855 08/08/04 11:57 PM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 394
B
Member
I suspect this may be one of those places where the code has not quite kept pace with changing realities. With the tremendous growth in the RV industry, more and more people are parking them at their residence and want to have power to them. I know of several who use the RV as a spare bedroom / guesthouse for visitors. Things like water and sewer connections will need to be addressed in their respecrive codes as well.
For my personal RV, I did not install a disconnect switch at the outlet but the breaker is within about 25 feet. I did choose to use a GFI breaker based on how much junk wiring I've seen in RVs. After all this discussion, I think I would use an outlet with an integral disconnect in and future installs I do. If I were to author a piece of code, I would mandate the GFI.

#88856 08/09/04 05:25 AM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 613
S
Member
Does anyone think that a seperate ground rod is necessary at the RV supply equipment(connected to the grouding conductor) to disperse a lightning strike? This would seem to be similar to whats required at a seperate building, such as a detached garage.

#88857 08/09/04 12:30 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
I
Moderator
No, cord and plug connected equipment does not normally need a ground rod.


Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts
#88858 08/09/04 06:05 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 2,527
B
Moderator
 
(1) GFCIs within receptacle cans are probably desirable over those located at circuit origins—likely partially limiting nuisance trips.

(2) For 50-ampere trailer receptacles, NEC 550 calls out signage:

 Turn Disconnecting Switch or Circuit Breaker Off Before Inserting or Removing Plug

   effectively mandating breakers at receptacles. Similar requirements are not specified for 30-ampere receptacles or for RV circuits, but maybe someday the requirement will extend to those situations.

(3) Agreed that some trailerhouse wiring is egregious, but there is one qualifying factory AC-hipot test that has to have increased installation quality to some degree. Given past notoriously bad trailerhouse-wiring “expertise/workmanship”—at least some of the riffraff is weeded out with NEC 550/551-specified 900-volt/1-minute//1080-volt/1-second “hot-to-neutral” dielectric-test levels. [I believe this test has been required of California trailer manufacturers for about three decades, and indirectly limited a degree of near-criminal loss of life and porerty.] Though not so much of a problem nowadays, the test would not help eliminating sleazy aluminum branch-circuit terminations.

(4) NEC 551-60 also calls out ground-continuity and receptacle-polarity tests. Trumpy has recently discussed Portable Appliance Testing—apparently common in NZ, AUS (and the UK?)  A trailer might be viewed as an “appliance” of sorts. I suppose factory dielectric tests could be considered be roughly comparable to (non-reoccurring) PAT tasks.




[This message has been edited by Bjarney (edited 08-09-2004).]

#88859 08/10/04 12:04 AM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 394
B
Member
Don't have the book in front of me again but I think the 550 section is house trailers and 551 is RV's and RV parks. It looks to me like a single outlet at a residence is not really covered by those sections. I looked around a little and did not come up with anything that actually allows for a 50 amp RV outlet at a residence. Anybody got any ideas on a section that would directly allow them?

#88860 08/10/04 12:44 AM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 625
S
Member
I could be wrong, but it seems to me that there doesn't have to be anything that specifically allows it. As long as everything is done using approved methods, and there's nothing that specifically prohibits it, it should be OK, no?

#88861 08/10/04 09:46 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4
S
Junior Member
I'd have to agree with the rv park codes not being applicable here as this is a home.Therefore seems to me that only that section of the code that applies to a 30A outdoor receptacle would apply as far as the code is concerned.
Although for safety reasons i like the signage idea with the disconnect as who knows just what sort of load might be on when a homeowner plugs this thing in.
I could be wrong here but what says this outlet isn't for use for a welder in your yard anyways.or anything else you could think of to use this outlet for.
Thanks for you time.

[This message has been edited by santishian (edited 08-10-2004).]

#88862 08/11/04 01:15 AM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 394
B
Member
SolarPowered, I was scanning thru the permitted section for residential wiring. Electric heat, range and dryer outlets are specifically allowed 240v hi amp circuits. I am just wondering if that specific listing for residential precludes other 50 amp circuits?

#88863 08/11/04 01:46 AM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 625
S
Member
I don't know what you're looking at, specifically. If it's 210.23(C), I believe that that section is specificially referring to circuits supplying two or more receptacles, so it wouldn't apply to what we're discussing.

However, I'm no Code maven. I was just stating what I think I understand, hoping to see what those more knowledgeable than I have to say about it.

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