ECN Forum Forums Code Related Discussion NEC & other Code issues Rebar bonding connection...

Other than exothermic welding, what other methods are permitted to connect the #8 to the rebar in an inground pool?
I am aware if the Greaves "Jones Bond" system, but is there another acceptable technique?

Redsy,
For a lot of years, we were allowed to tie wire the conductor to the rebar. That's a BAD method as the steel tie wire has a tendency to go away.

Mechanically, a split bolt is still acceptable, if you're using #4 rebar, you need a 1/2" split bolt (Like light bulb designations, rebar is sized by how many 1/8" increments - ie: #4 = 4 X 1/8 or 1/2")

ALL mechanicals are subject to failure, they are getting weaker the day you put them in. Add Chlorine, lime and all other chemicals associated with pools and concrete the subject grows quickly.

I gave up anything but cadwelds long ago, I've had to dig up too many pools where the other methods were used - NOT installed by me though. If you go with the mechanical methods, take a lot of care in the prep.
www.erico.com
they can get nearly any mold to you PDQ

Wouldn't a listed Ufer clamp work?

I don't believe that a split bolt is listed for that application.
Don

How about an acorn that is listed/labeled for direct burial?

BTW,
The Greaves "JonesBond" connectors seem to be the best listed mechanical method.
I'm having trouble finding a local supplier that stocks their stuff.
I may have to order a whole box.

When I write on an inspection report that something needs to be listed I am very careful to write "listed for the purpose". I think an acorn clamp could be used if listed for rebar attatchment. I think a listed Ufer clamp is the best bet, and that is what I require in the feild.

Ryan,
The Ufer installations I've seen were either a compression "C"-tap or a water ground with one half reversed like this -- {{.
Do you have a picture of a listed Ufer ground clamp?

Redsy: I don't have picture but I will take one tommorrow. I see them everyday here.

Redsy: I want to make sure you realize I'm not blowing you off here. I looked the other day for a clamp, but I didn't ahve much time to hunt for one. I have a four day weekend and will spend half of the day Wednesday at IAEI board meetings. Hopefully I can get a picture for you Wednesday or Thursday. Sorry

Thanks, Ryan.

I will wait patiently.

Redsy, If the code allows to tie wire a ground to rebar, then a direct burial acorn clamp should be O.K. Just get some 3M Scotch coat, and coat the connection. If not, get it from Greaves.

Redsy:

Here's a picture for us to see and a Greaves part number if that helps.




I have an image of a ground clamp that looks just like the same one used on a water pipe or water tubing, and it shows where it is OK for use in a concrete location.

The only problem is that it says: "Approved" and not: "Listed" and we all know that UL DOES NOT APPROVE EQUIPMENT.

If you want I can post it here, let me know.

Thank you Joe, that is exactly what I was thinking of. I couldn't find one to take a picture of the last few days.

Thanks Joe & Ryan for your efforts.
That is the Greaves rebar clamp that I have literature on.
I believe the "J29" means 3/8" rebar, because J30 & J31 are for 1/2 & 5/8", respectively.
The "DB" obviously means direct burial.
Joe,
The literature I have shows the UL listing symbol and the CSA symbol with NRTL and Direct Burial incorporated into the symbol.

Here's the other clamp I mentioned above.

Thanks, Joe.I noticed the copper screws on what appears to resemble a standard water clamp, probably smaller diameter, though.
Is that a Greaves item, or do you have a manufacturer or part number?

Try this...
http://www.nsipolaris.com/products/tpl2003/d/d-2.pdf

I was always curious, and now seems like a good time to ask (learn). Why is it important/required to bond all the rebar in an inground pool?

Redsy:

I don't know who manufacturers this clamp.

I was always curious, and now seems like a good time to ask (learn). Why is it important/required to bond all the rebar in an inground pool?

Mean Gene,
Cuz the code says so

Actually..The purpose of the bonding of all conductive parts in and around the pool is to eliminate any possible voltage gradients between any of the surfaces associated with the pool. There is no requirement that this bonding be connected to any grounding electrode or equipment grounding conductor. See 680.26(C) Common Bonding Grid


[This message has been edited by txsparky (edited 11-17-2003).]

To put it in more esoteric doctrine:

Concrete / full of Chlorine + sunlight = battery

Ya kin get the SNOT knocked outta ya

Sorry ta be so tek nickel

George,
LMAO

George,


How does one know that the bonding connections have gone to hell or are non existant?
I always presumed the bonding requirement had something to do with lightning protection.

[This message has been edited by Mean Gene (edited 11-18-2003).]

Not to get too far off topic here, but how do you bond an existing vessel that is to be converted to a swimming pool?

I am working with a church camp which was given some rural land. We have a large livestock tank built, as far as anyone knows, in the 1930s. It is filled by overflow from the drinking water tank, which is filled by an old Aeromotor windmill. Naturally enough, it gets used for swimming. We have a PT deck & stairs, floatation devices and the like. Now we have folks talking about adding a filter pump and making it into a real pool. It is of limestone construction.

Are we required to "bond" this, and if so, how? Do we have to add rebar and pour more concrete?

yaktx,

"Conversion pool?"
Sorry, I'm not an advocate of this kind of kluge.
Too much potential liability.
How big is this tank?

https://www.electrical-contractor.net/ubb/Forum2/HTML/001412.html

.... And by the way, UL Does Not Approve anything they "List or Label" equipment.

The clamp above has a label that says "Approved."

The term "Approved" is defined in Article 100 of the NEC.

If there is no rebar to bond, then there is no bonding required for the pool itself. Equipment will still have to be bonded, as will metal things like ladders, diving boards, etc.

Earl

I sure love exothermic welding.