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Service grounding #86116 09/11/03 06:53 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 114
bwise121 Offline OP
I'm helping a friend upgrade two panels on a duplex he owns. The panels are right next to eachother. Each panel will be 100 amp.
The plan is to go up with one riser rated for 200 amp and bring that into a gutter. From the gutter, split into two 100 amp panels below.

I'm familiar with grounding for regular single family homes, but in this case I'm not sure if I'm needing to double up all the grounding.

I don't have a ufer so I'll use the water main as the main grounding electrode (it is metal going into the ground), secondary electrode will be a 8' ground rod. Lastly, I'll bond the gas at the hot water heater. All of this will be done in #4 bare wire.

This being said, I'm sure I don't have to put in two ground rods and run two #4 wires to the water for each panel. How is this normally done?

Any suggestions or advice on this would be appreciated... also, what is the differnece between grounding and bonding?


2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
Re: Service grounding #86117 09/12/03 06:13 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 197
zapped208 Offline
What is a ufer? We do not use that term here in Pa or Ny. Thanks.

Shoot first, apologize later.....maybe
Re: Service grounding #86118 09/12/03 08:30 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2
jnsells Offline
Junior Member
The grounding electrode conductors can be spliced together in the gutter, then one grounding electrode conductor run to your grounding electrode(s), with the size based on a 100 amp service. Of course, the gutter has to be bonded also. Soares book on grounding has good illustrations of this.

Although the code requires gas piping to be bonded, several AHJ's and local gas companies will not allow to check first.

For our friends in PA & NY, a UFER is a concrete encased grounding electrode, typically rebar within the foundation. The UFER ground system was actually developed during World War II by Herbert G. Ufer, a retired vice president of U.L.

Re: Service grounding #86119 09/12/03 07:05 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 114
bwise121 Offline OP
Although some interesting comments I'm not finding this helpful.
Example of the kind of explaination I'm looking for follows:
Take the Grounding electrode and the conductor from the ground rod to one panel then take a grounding jumper from the first panel to the second panel.

Please reply,

Re: Service grounding #86120 09/12/03 09:12 PM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,457
Electricmanscott Offline
If it's do it yourself info you need you might be in the wrong place. By the way where are the meters? I can think of no reason to have a gutter.

Re: Service grounding #86121 09/12/03 10:53 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,721
Scott35 Offline
Broom Pusher and
I agree with Electricmanscott, especially since jnsells' post answers the question concisely.

Sorry if this sounds offensive (which it's not intended to be at all!).


Scott " 35 " Thompson
Just Say NO To Green Eggs And Ham!
Re: Service grounding #86122 09/12/03 11:55 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 114
bwise121 Offline OP
No offense taken. I guess I was looking for someone to say point A goes to point B. I have purchased some electrical books and I am educating myself. This is a very useful board and I intend to use it in the future.

As for the gutter, I'm only following the advice of fellow electricains that have done similar work. I guess the idea is to have one riser. The existing panels are right next to eachother, so it would make sense for the riser to come into the gutter and then each conductor into a landing lug then to the line side of meter.

Sound okay?

Many thanks and have a good weekend.


Re: Service grounding #86123 09/13/03 01:44 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 681
PCBelarge Offline
Your bio does not state your occupation, I am curious why? This leads the pros here to be cautious as to how much info they give, because all the info given to a novice or homeowner will still not be enough. There is so much more to this industry than point A to point B!


Pierre Belarge
Re: Service grounding #86124 09/13/03 02:34 PM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,457
Electricmanscott Offline
For a two family I would use a 2 gang meter socket. One 200 amp riser from that, a hundred amp feeder to each panel. I see no need for a gutter at all. This is all the info I can give as this is NOT a do it yourself project and while it is good to see you trying to learn, this board and some books are not going to make you an electrician. If I lived in that duplex I would not be happy to know the wiring is being done by some handymen. In fact I would notify the local authorities.

Re: Service grounding #86125 09/13/03 02:57 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 114
bwise121 Offline OP
LOL very funny. Sorry to misguide you as to thinking I'm a handyman by the fact that I'm helping a friend out. I'm a licensed electrician here in California. This isn't my expertise so I was trying to find some info on grounding multi-family homes. I mostly have done commercial and single family homes. Again, the idea of a gutter with two 100 Amp panels was new to me and thats what I was told to do by fellow electricians as stated in a previous post.


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