|
0 members (),
193
guests, and
13
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
Moderator
|
sparky66wv,
I know I do not take it as a flame, if we all had the same opinion this would be a pretty boring place. I come here to learn and hear others opinions.
You can never know it all in our trade.
Bob
Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 67
Member
|
(rant mode on high)
I did a 'little' research, and I would like to know what the manufacturers have to say about what Virgil says about these afci breakers not detecting series arcs. None of the manufacturer literature says anything about the types of arcs, just that they detect (some of) them.
Looking at the ROP's also leads me to believe that they only protect whats in the walls and not the dog chewed, walked on, crimped, wornout zip-cord that is in a lot of homes. Are they saying that we as electricians cannot install a branch circuit with enough integrity not to fail, but anything that the homeowner puts in is OK?
Why the reluctance to approve afci receptacles? I firmly believe in safety at (almost) any cost, but this seems like an issue pushed to the forefront for the wrong reason.
What about some of these older breakers (no names) that you can weld with, aluminum wire improperly installed, two wire systems, very old wire that should have been replaced years ago, but some handyman taped it up "good as new".
If the afci breakers only protect new installations with Code approved methods and materials, then I think of it as a bandaid on a severed limb approach to safety.
I have nothing against the technology of afci's nor their use, if they protect against fire producing electrical arcs. But, I don't think they are yet up to the task that they are marketed to perform.
Sorry.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,392
Member
|
2003 ROP's are here pseudonym, sorry about that. Don, understood. whatever rationale they purse should be interesting. Your ROP is very concise, and hopefully will be met likewise. cubby964, frustrating isn't it ? Myself i peddaled many under false pretenses, and was quite upset at being had by 210.12 Many still are unaware..... My view of the entire NEC process also changed that very day. and i'm far from alone.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,148
Member
|
The AFCIs do in a way protect from high resistance "glowing connections" or seires arcs. They provide protection from these types of events only if the fault becomes a "parallel arcing fault" or if it becomes a ground fault. If it becomes a ground fault the GFP part of the AFCI will open the circuit.
Don
Don(resqcapt19)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,392
Member
|
yes they do Don,
however they fall short of the 'Crimestopper' expectations the marketing implies.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,236 Likes: 1
Member
|
Yes, Don, as with this thread , I have willingly installed them where I felt the GFP and parallel protection would offer some peace of mind. [This message has been edited by sparky66wv (edited 01-29-2003).]
-Virgil
Residential/Commercial Inspector
5 Star Inspections
Member IAEI
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,392
Member
|
I had offered AFCI'S as a quick fix for K&T circuits for a while......
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 134
Member
|
Ok, I admit I haven't read this entire thread but I'm just sick of industry creating the problem and then selling the solution.
I'd like to announce that I'm developing a patent on an arc fault interruptor switch with a built in GFCI protector. It's mine I tel you...all mine. And I'm going to make it a requirment that all switches everywhere will be of this type.....my type...
I'll be rich and the world will be a safer place.
I'm also thinking of making a little device that plugs into a GFCI and once per month a little finger pops out of it and pushes the test button..... It then automatically pushes the reset button. If neither operations function properly it will automatically burn your house down. The last part may need changing....
RSlater,
RSmike
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 183
Member
|
More random ramblings - if ACFIs are such a good solution, why only require them in bedrooms? If they are aimed at catching pinched or nicked wires that cause parallel arcs, why require them on smokes or light fixtures?
/mike
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,392
Member
|
n1sit,
AFCI's were introduced to protect the branch circuit, the efficy declining beyond the device.
I believe the listing(s) follow suit.
many hold thier wiring methods as being confronted when they learn this.
which is why it isn't exactly front page news in trade mags.
[This message has been edited by sparky (edited 01-28-2003).]
|
|
|
|
Posts: 362
Joined: April 2003
|
|
|
|
