ECN Forum Forums Code Related Discussion NEC & other Code issues Island Receptacles

With the right core drill in the marble or slate top, what about a floor box with recessed duplex receptacle? [It wouldn't be subject to any more abuse than with a floor polisher on terrazzo, right?]

I think there is a rule prohibiting face up receptacles in counter tops.

scott,

See 406.4(E).

So noted, guys...thanks. I'm off to the substation where I won't bother anyone for awhile. ;-)

—Bjarn

p.s.: Go Safely Tonite!

Bjarney: You mentioned drilling into the countertop... A friend of mine just moved in down the street. He has a beautiful countertop with an "under the counter" sink. The knucklehead who originally installed it used only adhesive (no clamps, or whatever the best method of installation would be) to attach the sink to the underside of the counter. The drain goes to PVC pipe. Cr-a-a-c-k goes the pipe, down goes the sink.

The plumber said he would use lumber to temporarily hold the sink in place, but he was not going to touch the countertop with a drill--my pal needs to hire somebody else to do that work because the plumber doesn't want to be liable for cracking the countertop material (smart guy).

The worst part of this was that the sink is in the basement, sort of a bar setup, and was tied into the sanitary sewer line rather than the storm sewer line. There had been a blockage in the sanitary line and that's what made the sink fill up with the backed up water, being the lowest point in the house. I was there helping to clean up and before I got started, something told me to put on one of my disposable Tyvek suits. I'm glad I did...

[This message has been edited by ThinkGood (edited 01-01-2003).]

I love kitchens!?

See the CODE!

Definitely no "face-up" locations allowed in kitchens & baths,hate to see the fluids running down the openings.

What does the stamped print indicate as far as how many side openings? If it shows one and the AHJ doesn't object, then it gets one. If the H.O. wants two, one on each side then they get what they pay for.

And as typical cabs. go, there is always plenty of room to slip these openings in!

All of the custom homes I do are in EMT, I always load the island/penninsula recpts. from a counter GFI so a duplex will fit into a gangable with room to spare. All recpts. are in pipe inside the cabs., this is not so easy to keep room and looking nice and pretty.
I always let the GC deal with adjusting the shelves around the pipe, cutting the openings in the cabs., I try to let the GC do it to save me time, and any potential damage is their responsibility.

As far as the dish and compactor, shoot a stub into the area under the sink where all the plumbing is. If the loads on the two won't be too much for one 20A circuit, put them on together.
I always install a dishwasher disconnect under the sink for service. Dish is typically hardwired, not set-up with a plug.
Yet, in the circumstance for your case, a duplex under the sink, split or not for two circuits or one would kill two birds with one stone. And if there ends up being a disposal, switch tucked inside cab., or together with side duplex. The j-box under cab. gives a lot of options.

Unless modified by Ordinance ( for a municipality or the State if State mandated,
not to install an outlet would be a violation.

Why can't the occupant decide when an outlet is safe to use for these countertop installations?

If you have toddlers about, DON'T USE THEM .

The next owner may want them and the code requirements are minimum.

ElecBob,

Isn't knowingly removing a required component in an inspected installation defrauding the owner of a building and jeopardizing the quality of workmanship of the contractors involved ?

I've heard that a contractor was installing AFCI's then after the inspection, replaced the AFCI CB's with regular CB's, I suppose selling them to the next customer.

Same AFCI CB inspected in many different dwellings ?????

I smell deceit and fraud.

I wonder who would be the culprit if a fire did happen and Forensic proved the AFCI had been removed from the circuit that started the fire ?

Many good points have been brought up here.
In 3 out of 3 cases where I have removed the installed outlet after inspection, the owner did not want the outlet and they were upset that the code required the outlet. "Hey, I didn't write the code lady so back off while I cut a hole in your $1500 cabinet." They liked the Wiremold approach and they liked me for suggesting it. When I open my NEC book and a check falls out, I'l tell the customer there's no way around the code requirement.
Why the remark to me about AFCI's GWZ? What does deceit and fraud smell like?
Bob

Items such as recept placement (12' spacing in several types of rooms, 4' spacing on countertops, and ISLAND RECEPTS) are a strange part of the code.

They are clearly requirments for spec homes.

But for homes where the owner is known, they are more perscriptive than required. If a home owner does not want an island recept, they do should not have one.

If you set the island on top of the floor or in a recess in the floor (without fastening in place), then the island is not part of the house it is a table and does not need a recept.