ECN Forum Forums Code Related Discussion NEC & other Code issues Lawyer's New Home & An Inspector Wired It!

joe20, CTwireman,
I haven't the permission to fix anything, yet. I was there to install a transfer switch and cord to a generator. The pix were taken before I started, so now the lines and loads of the transfer switch unit are crowding the panel.

sparky, yup, you know it! Rock and a hard place, indeed! But there's more to this story... (in a minute)

Redsy, LOL! Well, he obviously had the knowledge to flag himself, he was the first IAEI certified inspector for electrical services required by the PoCo in this area.

Tom, you nailed it! This 200A 4 wire feeder comes from a disconnect that is paired with another panel and disconnect to a 320A meterbase. The EGC and Neutral need to be seperated here, and everything on the service end of thigs in pic #1 is OK except he (they) neglected to remove the bonding bar between the busses. Then, in turn, someone made up all the EGCs and neutrals in the branch circuits with disregard to which bus they were on.

The bus bonding-bar needs removed and the EGCs need to go on the left and noodles on the right.

Everyone,
To better my arguments to have this (pic #1) corrected, what safety issues are compromised here?

Pearlfish, Chris is correct, this is a standard GE 200A 2 Pole Main CB. The individual breakers are really 100A, but two parallel per side for 200A per leg. Look closer at the bus feed below the Main CB.

John (Hotline1), Certified IAEI... The same one that likes to retorque my terminals.

(Things are looking up, I'll elaborate in another post...)

ElectricmanScott, Actually, this may have some interesting financial incentives...

NJWirenut, yes there is a white stripe (not visible in pic) but I generally add tape anyway, just to be sure.

Everyone, Thanks for all the input.

The lawyer had called me in for work at his office, and then for the transfer switch. He had some recepts that didn't work (GFCI tripped) and another that didn't work that I ended up disconnecting on the load side (nail in cable?). Plus, the a ceiling fan cable must have been pierced because the light doesn't work, but the fan does.

To make a long story short, even after explaning (to a lawyer, no less!) that this house was new enough to still be under warranty, and all of this should be fixed free of charge, he looked me in the eye and said he'd rather pay me to fix it than have the "inspector" come back.

Wow!

Opinions and comments?





[This message has been edited by sparky66wv (edited 12-11-2002).]

Oh, so this is a subpanel we are looking at?

Is there no end to the madness???

Seems to me the green wire isn't a problem, it's just the grounding conductor that goes to the water pipe/grounding rods for the panel, the neutral just isn't re-identified, i don't see a white stripe, just the lettering identifying the cable type.

I don't understand the 4 breakers, it looks like they wouldn't trip because the load is flowing through two instead of one, also you could potentially turn off only one leg of service here. It's pretty odd, what kind of panel is this anyways??

Did someone say "Financial incentives".....

Those four breakers are 2 -100A breakers on each leg. (ie. 200A main disconnect) They are tested as such by a NRTL organization.

This "doubeling-up" is not to be done in the field.

As for the NEUTRAL vs the EGC bus it is the same bus as can be seen at the bottom end(s) of the bus being tied together.

Sparky,

OWW! Putting inspectors in the same class as lawyers. GESH! I wouldn't want to get down to their level. As GWZ said, those main breakers are allowed. Also Cut-Ham type BR breakers might be allowed for that panel. One thing that I see, is there a disconnect (lockable?) for that well pump? I see they don't believe in strapping the wires running to the well either.

Harold

66wv
Quote
he looked me in the eye and said he'd rather pay me to fix it than have the "inspector" come back.

This shows that he trusts you and would rather get it done right. I am assuming since he is a lawyer that he can afford to get it done right and not spend extra money on nickel and dime stuff that would probabaly equal or exceed your costs.

I learned a long time ago that it is often time to cut the cord with someone with bad performance. Sure you can fight them and they will eventually perform at an adequate standard. But it is better to pay for good working practices then fight someone for adequate practices.
Scott

Peter, Yup, sorry I didn't clarify before, I thought the 4-wire would give that way...


To answer a rhetorical question: Yes, there is no end to the madness (yes, we have no bananas?).

Zack, yes, Gwz is correct, the "bus bar" connects the two, but can't be removed until (half) the branch circuit EGCs and noodles are put onto the proper busses.

Harold, no well-pump disco.

Loverly, ain't it!



Scotts, Electricmanscott,

Seems to be what's happening! And this guy is very influentual, and I may even get some good referrals from him! (Hopefully) He owns an entire side of a block in downtown Lewisburg, rents it all out as offices. He may have even more real estate. Impressing this guy can only bring good things!



[This message has been edited by sparky66wv (edited 12-11-2002).]

Two tight shots of the panel to help clarify some Q's:

#10


#11


<edited to number the pix>

[This message has been edited by sparky66wv (edited 12-12-2002).]

Question:

In pix 2 through 9, how does one get past ducts and return air spaces and still comply with 334.15(C)?

Running boards as per 334.15(A)?

In pic #4, the diagonal cut, can one place running boards at angles to the framing members (saving rerouting the cable)?

I tend to think that a drop ceiling is/was possibly planned... that would help some of this make a little more sense, like the extra cable on the lights (no Jct box with 6' BX whip?)...

Would a drop ceiling make the NM Cable OK as is? (Becomes a "finished" ceiling...)

Thanks in advance,

-Virgil

[This message has been edited by sparky66wv (edited 12-12-2002).]