ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
Shout Box
Recent Posts
sec cable code conflict
by HotLine1. 11/20/18 03:08 PM
This anti-theist is priceless!!!
by Texas_Ranger. 11/17/18 02:15 PM
High current GFI vs regular GFCI
by Texas_Ranger. 11/17/18 02:07 PM
Single phase and what you call it.
by dsk. 11/12/18 11:10 AM
New in the Gallery:
What is this for?
Plug terminals
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 42 guests, and 21 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Define "ADJACENT" #80032
02/14/02 07:51 PM
02/14/02 07:51 PM
M
MVillines  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 21
Henderson
What is the definition of adjacent? Can a receptacle, installed in the bathroom on a partition wall face opposite the basin? This receptacle is within three feet of the basin and also adjacent to the basin. Only problem, there is a wall between the basin and the receptacle.
Can a transfer switch be mounted on the outside wall of a building with the service panel directly behind the transfer switch on the inside of a building? Are the two panels adjacent?

2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
Re: Define "ADJACENT" #80033
02/14/02 11:36 PM
02/14/02 11:36 PM
E
Elzappr  Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 270
Oregon
Purely my own opinion, but NO..for both scenarios. Seems more like "close proximity".
Another situation: On a job here in Oregon, roof-top HVAC equipment is supposed to have disconnect means adjacent to the units...but they installed a panel about 100ft from the units! Somehow they got it past the inspector. Apparently the word "adjacent" is too vague for adequate or consistent enforcement!

Re: Define "ADJACENT" #80034
02/15/02 06:25 AM
02/15/02 06:25 AM
S
sparky  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,371
LOL!
would the disco for a motor control meet the definitional intent of 'within sight' if separated by a door w/ a sight glass????


ad·ja·cent
Pronunciation: &-'jA-s&nt
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French or Latin; Middle French, from Latin adjacent-, adjacens, present participle of adjacEre to lie near, from ad- + jacEre to lie; akin to Latin jacere to throw -- more at JET
Date: 15th century
1 a : not distant : NEARBY <the city and adjacent suburbs> b : having a common endpoint or border <adjacent lots> <adjacent sides of a triangle> c : immediately preceding or following
2 of two angles : having the vertex and one side in common
- ad·ja·cent·ly adverb

Re: Define "ADJACENT" #80035
02/15/02 09:42 AM
02/15/02 09:42 AM
M
MVillines  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 21
Henderson
Elzappr
You have the same opinion as a member of the Technical Correlating Committee. I must question the wording of the NEC because certain panels must be grouped while others must be adjacent, yet they both mean the same?

Re: Define "ADJACENT" #80036
02/15/02 03:03 PM
02/15/02 03:03 PM
Joe Tedesco  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,749
Boston, Massachusetts USA
Get a copy of the NEC Style Manual here:
http://www.nfpa.org/nec/resources/stylemanual/stylemanual.asp

Start sending in proposals to rid the code of the term you question, and others that are considered as being "unenforceable and vague."


Taken from the NEC Style Manual

Table 3.2.1 Possibly Unenforceable and Vague Terms

Acceptable

Adequate

Adjacent

Appreciable

Appropriate

Approximate(ly)

Available

Avoid(ed)

Can

Care

Careful(ly)

Consider(ed)(ation)

Could

Desirable

Easy(ily)

Equivalent(ly)

Familiar

Feasible

Few

Frequent(ly)

Firmly

Generally

Good

Lightly

Likely

Legible(y)

Many

May

Maybe

Might

Most(ly)

Near(ly)

Neat(ly)

Normal(ly)

Note

Periodic(ally)

Practical(ly)

Practices

Prefer(red)

Proper(ly)

Ready(ily)

Reasonable(y)

Safe(ly)(ty)

Satisfactory

Secure(ly)

Several

Significant

Similar

Substantial(ly)

Sufficient(ly)

Suitable

Usual(ly)


[This message has been edited by Joe Tedesco (edited 08-23-2002).]


Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant
Re: Define "ADJACENT" #80037
02/15/02 04:37 PM
02/15/02 04:37 PM
E
Elzappr  Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 270
Oregon
Your list should include "impracticable" too!
Is "impracticable" that which costs too much money?

Re: Define "ADJACENT" #80038
02/15/02 04:44 PM
02/15/02 04:44 PM
B
BuggabooBren  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 328
NM
Perhaps the realistic clarification of the appropriate location can only be made if the intent or function and purpose is known for the article being installed. For example, if an emergency shut-off switch is to fulfill its purpose, it must not only be within a reasonable distance, it must be within easy reach - hence, a glass wall or partition is completely out of the question.

Re: Define "ADJACENT" #80039
02/16/02 01:21 AM
02/16/02 01:21 AM
E
Elzappr  Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 270
Oregon
Responding to Sparky's query: No. The disconnect has to be in sight FROM the HVAC unit. So a door with a window wouldn't work. I know you were only kidding, but some folks like to push rules to the limit, so they might try to get away with that suggestion.
Mvillines, interesting how the words can get equivocal. I never focused on the way the two expressions are used in the Code for seemingly the same scenario. But, for me,"grouped" means kept close together (where "close" depends on the practical context - as B-Bren mentions), and "adjacent" means being close, but not necessarily TOGETHER, and not necessarily on the same wall space, but perhaps around the inside corner of a wall.
I don't know..does this make sense?


Featured:

2017 Master Electrician Exam Preparation Combos
2017 NEC Electrician
Exam Prep Combos:
Master / Journeyman

 

Member Spotlight
Posts: 165
Joined: March 2007
Show All Member Profiles 
Top Posters(30 Days)
Admin 7
Popular Topics(Views)
251,652 Are you busy
188,790 Re: Forum
178,504 Need opinion
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1
(Release build 20180101)
Page Time: 0.038s Queries: 14 (0.016s) Memory: 0.9947 MB (Peak: 1.1555 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2018-11-21 07:57:00 UTC