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#80011 02/13/02 11:31 PM
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 22
B
beach Offline OP
Member
A licensed electrical contractor I work with says running a ground wire from a recpt to a water pipe bonding with a copper strap is an approved method for obtaining a ground from a 2 wire system. Example: knob and tube wiring, he ran a #12 wire from the recpt to a water pipe (3/4 galv) to acheive a ground. I argued with him since it was my belief this was not an approved method.

Please shed some light please. I have a 2002 NEC. Please reference some code so I can better understand, also a suggested approved method if his is not.

The local is Sacramento, CA In city limits.

Thank you
Jon

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#80012 02/13/02 11:39 PM
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,148
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Jon,
Look at 250.130(C)
Don(rescqpt19)


Don(resqcapt19)
#80013 02/14/02 12:03 AM
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 22
B
beach Offline OP
Member
In reading it is my understanding that his connection is only permitted if within 5 ft of the pipe entrance since it is not a commercial or indusrtial but rather a residential building.

IS THIS CORRECT?

Jon

#80014 02/14/02 06:37 AM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,392
S
Member
beach,
first you must consider if said conductor is a 'Bond" or a 'Grounding Electrode Conductor' (or GEC). The 5' rule would apply to the latter.

#80015 02/14/02 08:34 AM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,457
E
Member
Jon, I believe you are correct, you must run the ground to within 5 feet of water line point of entry, or you could run it into the panels ground bar. This or may not be accepted where you are. Here in Mass we are not allowed to do this. They have deleted 250.130(C)

#80016 02/14/02 06:45 PM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 163
D
Member
Beach - you are in Calif. - the NEC 1996 is the state adopted code (not '99 or 2002) -...so

250-50(b)Excetion - says "shall be permitted to be grounded to any accessible point on the GES as described in 250-81, or to any accessible point on the GEC."...going to 250-81....
250-81(a) - Metal underground water pipe - there is no requirement for attaching within 5' of entry into the bldg....(unless I missed somthing but I don't think I did) ....so - your elect. contractor wired this correctly....until Calif. finally gets around to adopting the 1999.

#80017 02/14/02 07:44 PM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,457
E
Member
Wow I can not beleive there are states out there that do not keep up with current code. Anyone still using the knob and tube out there?

#80018 02/15/02 01:27 AM
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 22
B
beach Offline OP
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Knob and tube? Of course....Why? Have you heard of something better?

#80019 02/15/02 01:39 AM
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 25
D
Member
The 5 foot rule for the water pipe connection first appeared in the 1993 NEC. If the grounding connection was not made within the first five feet from the point where the water service enters the building, it would not appear to be done correctly.

#80020 02/15/02 09:09 AM
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,056
R
Member
Knob and tube is still an acceptable wiring method as an extension to existing k&t.
Not that I would choose to do so.

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