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nec2002 250.118 #78911
11/08/01 05:50 PM
11/08/01 05:50 PM
G
ggardiner  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 81
Calgary, Alberta Canada
Can anyone tell me what are the listed cables with acceptable ground return paths are. As it is referred to in 517.13.
Haven't received my copy of 2002 yet and I have to plan installations for the year year.

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Re: nec2002 250.118 #78912
11/11/01 08:23 AM
11/11/01 08:23 AM
electure  Offline

Member
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,276
Fullerton, CA USA
The Code does not list cables as being approved or not. It only (517.13) requires that:
"The metal raceway system, or cable armor, or sheath assembly shall itself qualify as an equipment grounding return path in accordance with 250.118."
The cable's listing is what will determine its acceptability
Although they mention A/C, M/C, & M/I cable, the only one I know of is A/C for your useage.
This is nearly a repeat of the Q you already asked in another section of the BB.
Check there [Linked Image]

[This message has been edited by electure (edited 11-11-2001).]

Re: nec2002 250.118 #78913
11/11/01 09:04 AM
11/11/01 09:04 AM
Joe Tedesco  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,749
Boston, Massachusetts USA
2002 NEC 250.118 (11) Type MC cable where listed and identified for grounding in accordance with the following:

a. The combined metallic sheath and grounding conductor of interlocked metal tape type MC cable

b. The metallic sheath or the combined metallic sheath and grounding conductors of the smooth or corrugated tube type MC cable


[This message has been edited by Joe Tedesco (edited 11-11-2001).]


Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant
Re: nec2002 250.118 #78914
11/11/01 09:06 AM
11/11/01 09:06 AM
S
sparky  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,371
lemme see,
the only real 250.118 change in 02' is 250.118(1)
A copper, aluminum, or copper clad aluminum conductor.......
[Linked Image]

Re: nec2002 250.118 #78915
11/11/01 09:53 AM
11/11/01 09:53 AM
electure  Offline

Member
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,276
Fullerton, CA USA
Be sure to check with the local AHJ as to what edition of the Code they are using before you incorporate any 2002 changes.
Many of them in my area are still basing everything on the '96 Code!

Re: nec2002 250.118 #78916
11/11/01 11:35 AM
11/11/01 11:35 AM
R
resqcapt19  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,148
IL
Joe,
Just so everyone understands, the combined metallic sheath and the grounding conductor of the interlocking armor type MC cable does not meet the requirement in 517.13.
don(resqcapt19)


Don(resqcapt19)
Re: nec2002 250.118 #78917
11/11/01 03:58 PM
11/11/01 03:58 PM
Joe Tedesco  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,749
Boston, Massachusetts USA
Here is the exact reference from the new 2002 NEC. What part of this is not clear or understood?

[Linked Image]

And here is what the 2002 NEC says in 250.118 (11) Type MC cable where listed and identified for grounding in accordance with the following:
a. The combined metallic sheath and grounding conductor of interlocked metal tape type MC cable

b. The metallic sheath or the combined metallic sheath and grounding conductors of the smooth or corrugated tube type MC cable




[This message has been edited by Joe Tedesco (edited 11-11-2001).]


Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant
Re: nec2002 250.118 #78918
11/11/01 04:17 PM
11/11/01 04:17 PM
R
resqcapt19  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,148
IL
Joe,
My point is that MC cable that is listed as an EGC per 250.118(11)(a) is not suitable for 517.13 installations because the sheath istself does not qualify as an EGC. It only qualifies when combined with the internal grounding conductor, and therefore does not meet the requirements of 517.13.
Don(resqcapt19)


Don(resqcapt19)
Re: nec2002 250.118 #78919
11/11/01 05:29 PM
11/11/01 05:29 PM
electure  Offline

Member
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,276
Fullerton, CA USA
Joe,
Do you know a company that has type MC or MI Cable that meets the requirements? (Come on, now!) What part don't you understand?
My concern is that if Mr Gardiner specs a freak, it will be a long lead-time item, and will not be acceptable when his EC gets it.
Use AFC's type AC-HCF (as Nick said) or an approved equal, and you can put it to bed.

Re: nec2002 250.118 #78920
11/11/01 06:15 PM
11/11/01 06:15 PM
Joe Tedesco  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,749
Boston, Massachusetts USA
Look here:

http://www.afcweb.com/table2.html
http://www.afcweb.com/fieldhcf.htm

Seems like MC cable is also approved for Fire Alarms.



[This message has been edited by Joe Tedesco (edited 11-11-2001).]


Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant
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