ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
ShoutChat Box
Recent Posts
New tool
by gfretwell - 10/24/20 11:09 AM
Where is Everyone?
by Bill Addiss - 10/17/20 07:04 PM
Beyond Belief
by gfretwell - 09/27/20 12:03 AM
New in the Gallery:
Facebook follies, bad wiring
FPE in Germany pt.2
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 20 guests, and 8 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Firewall #78294 09/03/01 11:24 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 7
S
sparkie Offline OP
Junior Member
I have a home owner who wants his breaker panel on the wall between the garage and the house only. As this is a firewall, I can not find much info in the code on it. Only 300-21. Am I missing something? The way I read it, all I need to do is apply a firestop product around the wire holes. This doesn't seem like enough to me.

2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
Re: Firewall #78295 09/04/01 06:10 AM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,389
S
sparky Offline
Member
sparkie,
i beleive there are different levels of classifications of firewalls, ranging from 1 hr burn ,to a distinctly separate building. what can penatrate, or exist in the same bay follows suit. anyone here have this particular code??
[Linked Image]

Re: Firewall #78296 09/04/01 06:59 AM
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,056
R
Redsy Offline
Member
There is a limit to how much total area is allowed to be comprised of openings on one side of a wall in relation to total area of wall space. The ratio escapes me now,(I believe it it 100 sq. in. opening per 10 sq. ft. of wall space) but I'll check when I get home.
Also, remember that back-to-back openings are not allowed in the same stud bay, unless certain guidelines are followed, as well.
I'm sure someone else on this site wil know.

Re: Firewall #78297 09/04/01 07:43 AM
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,283
electure Offline
Member
I notice that you mention "on" the wall rather than "in". If you surface mount it, you shouldn't have a problem. Be sure to caulk any penetrations in the wall with an approved fire caulk

Re: Firewall #78298 09/04/01 08:47 AM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,961
Bill Addiss Offline
Member
sparkie,

This sounds like something that you should check on locally. Fire Codes can vary from place to place. I'd ask the local AHJ to be sure about things.

Bill


Bill
Re: Firewall #78299 09/04/01 09:01 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 599
N
Nick Offline
Member
f) Membrane Penetrations. Walls may have openings for steel electrical outlet boxes not exceeding 16 square inches in area ,provided the aggregate area of such openings is not more than 100 square inches for any 100 square feet of wall or partition area . Outlet boxes on opposite sides of walls and partitions shall be separated by a horizontal distance of at least 24 inches . Where wall-protective membranes are penetrated by other materials or where larger openings are required than permitted above, the penetrating items shall be:

1. Protected with membrane-penetration fire stops suitable for the methods of penetration.

2. Installed in accordance with the installation instructions of their listing for such use.

EXCEPTION:Penetrations not larger than a 4-inch nominal pipe or 16 square inches in overall cross-sectional area containing noncombustible penetrating items, where the annular space between the penetrating items and the protective membrane being penetrated is filled with a material which will prevent the passage of flame and hot gases sufficient to ignite cotton waste when subjected to U.B.C. Standard No.43-1.Time-temperature fir conditions under a minimum positive pressure differential of 0.01-inc water column at the location of the penetration for the time per

Checking with the AHJ is the best answer because there could be other factors involved like.. is that an acceptable location for the panel. [Linked Image]
If it is going in the wall a generally accepted way of maintaining the raiting is a drywall box out. Maintaining required air space between layers. Being a house and probably a 3-1/2" studwall, with a box out it will end up a semi-recessed panel. [Linked Image]

Re: Firewall #78300 09/04/01 10:46 PM
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 25
D
dlabrenz Offline
Member
We're missing something here guys.

Here is the language out of the 200 IRC. It's almost identical to the lamguage in 1995 CABO.

R309.2 Separation required. The garage shall be separated
from the residence and its attic area by not less than 1/2-inch
(12.7 mm) gypsum board applied to the garage side.Where the
separation is a floor-ceiling assembly, the structure supporting
the separation shall also be protected by not less than 1/2-inch
(12.7 mm) gypsum board or equivalent.

Notice that at no time does the code use the term "firewall" in describing this wall/ceiling.

I thinking that this is not truely a fire all in the truest sense of the definition.

Re: Firewall #78301 09/04/01 11:28 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 599
N
Nick Offline
Member
Since only one side is required it would not be a "true" fire wall. (20 minute rating at best)

Re: Firewall #78302 09/05/01 06:46 AM
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,056
R
Redsy Offline
Member
Nick,
That is the spec. I was referring to above. What publication are you referencing?

Re: Firewall #78303 09/05/01 07:57 AM
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,283
electure Offline
Member
The spec that Nick has provided is the one that I've been accustomed to using, although I haven't done much resi work for years.
When we have to flush mount anything larger than a quad recp or double switch, it must be "boxed out" with drywall so that it actually lies in a recess that is outside the firewall's envelope.(usually a big pain). When possible,(unless it will project objectionably into a fire corridor or the like) we surface mount panels and such, and for aesthetic purposes will furr out and drywall around them.

Page 1 of 2 1 2

Featured:

2020 National Electrical Code
2020 National Electrical
Code (NEC)

* * * * * * *

2020 Master Electrician Exam Preparation Combos
2020 NEC Electrician
Exam Prep Combos:
Master / Journeyman

 

Member Spotlight
NickD
NickD
Amish Country, PA
Posts: 46
Joined: March 2013
Show All Member Profiles 
Top Posters(30 Days)
BigB 1
Popular Topics(Views)
271,002 Are you busy
205,005 Re: Forum
193,123 Need opinion
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3