ECN Forum Forums Code Related Discussion NEC & other Code issues Pool eq. installed by Landscaper

Hi everyone,

Had an odd request last Wednesday, to look over some stuff installed by a Landscaping Contractor.

The situation is:

Our main Gen. Contractor asked me to Consult this Landscape Contractor, mostly to see if they had installed some Electrical stuff properly. I was thinking that the stuff to check out would be landscape lighting and maybe a few Receptacles -
Had no clue what I was about to walk in to

Turns out that the Landscape Contractor installed a new sub panel, connected two [2] 1-1/2 HP pumps to it, via time clocks, hooked up a spa blower, hooked up a gas water heater for the pool / spa, connected the pool's light, along with misc. items at the pool equipment.

Now I have the disapointing chore of pointing out the numerous code violations - or do I??

The entire installation is bad. Clearances are one issue, GFCI is another, circuitry is the ultimate consern, and ampacity of circuits is grossly overloaded [the sub panel is only 4 circuit!!].

I checked it out, then told him I would have to continue this Monday, as I was called away from a very pressing project, and He needed to leave also, to some meeting.

I'm wondering just how to break this bad news to him. He seems to be a nice person, plus thinks somewhat logically, but will he fix all that I suggest??

It would mean corrections to almost everything there, which might not be $$$ worthy
Another angle is that I am very sure that no Electrical Permit was taken on this pool equipment, so since there's no Inspector, he may just say "screw it".

This one leaves me with a real moral dillemna!! I can't just allow a potential hazard to stay, plus I have already touched it and consulted on it.

Any thoughts??

I'm meeting again on Monday, so I'll post results to the group.

TIA!!

Scott SET

I can't help, but I can relate...

I have a job coming up where landscapers have, in my best interest, put white PVC "chases" under the sidewalks with about 1" of cover.

Considering the 6" cover rule for even low voltage cable (although some maufacturers say "just cover with mulch?!?!?!) these are pretty much unusable. This homeowner didn't like hearing that and again I looked like the bad guy.

Ive had concrete guys install white PVC chases with plumbing ells and expect me to pull #4/0-4 wire cable through it...

Why don't these people call me to consult before they do the work?!?!?!

Scott, have him sign a "CYA" document...

[This message has been edited by sparky66wv (edited 04-29-2001).]

Scott,

This does sound familliar. But the answer is rather simple. If you care about this person at all (or his opinion of you) you have to tell him everything. It's not about hurting is feelings it's about possibly saving a life. As far as whether He decides to fix it or not that's not your problem and it shouldn't even be his. This Landscaper stepped out of his "Turf" and as a result could be endangering lives. He should make good on it whatever the situation.

I would tell him that what you see would make you suspect everything else that was done by this person(s) and the only way You would feel good about it would be if it was totally redone.

Bill

my 2 cnts;
the louder people preach safety, the tighter their fists really are on their money.

the more they nod yes, the more they are really ignoring.

Scott, IF you are going to say anything at all, go all the way, or back off the job!

I know this is a hard call, but there is no NICE involved in these scenarios.

If this contractor had a shred of consience he would not be charging people to create time bombs

Call in the AHJ, let him twist in the wind...

Thanks Guys for the support!!

I'll meet with him tomorrow [Monday], explain everything that's non-compliant - or just plain uncool, then maybe price quote [if I was to fix and redo everything].

I'll post the results tomorrow night - stay tuned

Scott SET

Scott, I was just to my bro/sis inlaws new house here in our town of Anaheim (yeah, me too). They got a pool, & all the kids were in it playing around when someone decided to turn on the spa pump. My 8 yr old neice went to the timer and opened it. Of course there was no cover over the terminals. I flipped out!! (they've got locks from my LOTO now)
Although ignorance may be bliss, it can get you killed. Tell the folks exactly what needs to be told, although it may hurt the feelings of a nice guy, it may save the life of an innocent person (and convince the landscaper to work within the scope of his license)

Here's the latest:

We postponed the meeting until Wednesday Afternoon, so continue to stay tuned!

Scott SET

off with his head i say!

Well, here's the scoop!

He wants to have the whole thing done safely and correctly.
Pointed out all the problems and reasons things were unsafe, along with the non-compliance issues.

He wants safety as much as I do, so there was no difficulty!!

Next week, I'll spend a whole day at that place and correct everything.
He will buy most equipment [panel, breakers, etc.] and I'll do labor plus provide wire, conduit, straps and such. This will be T&M for me - I don't expect more than 10 hours will be needed to correct all.

Looks like everything turned out for the best!!
I wasn't drumming up business - got enough to do as it is - but couldn't let a dangerous situation just stay.

Scott SET

Stout fellow!