ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
Shout Box
Recent Posts
This anti-theist is priceless!!!
by djk. 11/14/18 07:19 AM
Single phase and what you call it.
by dsk. 11/12/18 11:10 AM
220/230/240V 60Hz Systems
by Albert. 11/07/18 12:48 AM
Black & Decker Recalls Hammer Drills
by Admin. 11/01/18 07:22 PM
New in the Gallery:
What is this for?
Plug terminals
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 9 guests, and 23 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Welder Woe's #76500
02/12/01 06:40 PM
02/12/01 06:40 PM
S
sparky  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,371
There seems to be some sort of phenomenon associated with arc-welders that escapes me.

This week , for the second time this year, i was called to a welder's shop that apparently caused a transformer fire. By this i mean the transformer on the utility pole.

The first time , i dismmissed this as a faulty t-former. This time i'm not so sure.

Both times, the service was small, 100 amp 120/240 residential, both times the welder was a rather large 50A unit. Both times, there appeared to be no other damage to panels, breakers, etc. Nothing tripped either...

I realize i lack any solid numbers here. Has anyone else dealt with this sort of scenario?

Sparky
[Linked Image]

2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
Re: Welder Woe's #76501
02/13/01 05:05 PM
02/13/01 05:05 PM
Tom  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,044
Shinnston, WV USA
I'd be willing to bet that this was a cheap "buzz box" type welder. I've run into something similar. It didn't burn out the transformer but it did cause some overheating of the grounded conductor & grounding conductors at the service. The owner of a mobile home was welding some additional steel to the fromae under his mobile home & the welder was plugged into a properly installed 50 amp circuit. He was having a hard time running a bead & as stated, the neutral & grounding conductors were getting hot. The steel was bonded to the equipment ground of the mobile homes panel as required. All I could think of was some sort of bizarre circulating current. I've seen this problem again & it also involved welding to something that was bonded to the electrical service.

I never did come up with an answer.


Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example.
Re: Welder Woe's #76502
02/13/01 10:07 PM
02/13/01 10:07 PM
Scott35  Offline

Broom Pusher and
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,708
Anaheim, CA. USA
This sounds like high harmonic distortion!!

Scott "S.E.T." [Linked Image]


Scott " 35 " Thompson
Just Say NO To Green Eggs And Ham!
Re: Welder Woe's #76503
03/18/01 03:23 AM
03/18/01 03:23 AM
O
old Appy  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 118
Auckland, New Zealand
By this i mean the transformer on the utility pole.

Wouldn't correct discrimination at the fuse board cause the board fuse to blow? rather than the Pole

Re: Welder Woe's #76504
03/18/01 07:02 AM
03/18/01 07:02 AM
S
sparky  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,371
Hi Appy!
how are things in New Zealand?

as for this thread, the suspect is the return path's distortion. This is something i endevor to assess my next visit to a welding shop. maybe get my TRMS fluke on it while the welder does one of those "stuck the rod to the work" deals...

[Linked Image]

Re: Welder Woe's #76505
03/18/01 11:28 AM
03/18/01 11:28 AM
B
Bennie R. Palmer  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 72
Milwaukie, OR 97267 USA
Old Appy: This is a pleasure to see your participation in this forum.
I love New Zealand, and the people. I spent some time, in 1980 and 81, in Auckland, Wellington, and Christchurch.
I was a member of the US Antarctic Research Expedition. The staging area was in Christchurch.
I was really impressed by the work ethics, and quality performance by the New Zealand Team at Scott Base. They constructed a camp, using our packing crates, that was superior to our pre-fabricated camp that was shipped in the crates.
Please continue to participate, you should have some good information to share.
Best regards; Bennie

Re: Welder Woe's #76506
03/18/01 11:45 PM
03/18/01 11:45 PM
Scott35  Offline

Broom Pusher and
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,708
Anaheim, CA. USA
Bennie.
Welcome back to the group. How's the movie thing going?

Scott SET


Scott " 35 " Thompson
Just Say NO To Green Eggs And Ham!
Re: Welder Woe's #76507
03/19/01 08:45 AM
03/19/01 08:45 AM
B
Bennie R. Palmer  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 72
Milwaukie, OR 97267 USA
Scott: Not much progress, its still on the drawing board. I'm not famous yet! [Linked Image]

Re: Welder Woe's #76508
03/19/01 11:17 AM
03/19/01 11:17 AM
M
Mike  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 62
A few years ago, we experienced a severe cold snap. I remember reading a newspaper article about a homeowner using a welder to thaw out the house water pipes. Unfortunately, the house caught on fire. The insulation ignited because of excessive heat on the bonding jumper which was connected to water piping system. The heat was caused by extremely high current from the welder induced on the bonding jumper going back to the neutral in the service panel. The recommendation to avoid such a situation was to disconnect the bonding jumper before thawing out the pipes.


Featured:

2017 Master Electrician Exam Preparation Combos
2017 NEC Electrician
Exam Prep Combos:
Master / Journeyman

 

Member Spotlight
Radar
Radar
Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 349
Joined: April 2004
Show All Member Profiles 
Top Posters(30 Days)
Admin 8
dsk 3
Popular Topics(Views)
251,431 Are you busy
188,648 Re: Forum
178,353 Need opinion
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1
(Release build 20180101)
Page Time: 0.026s Queries: 14 (0.004s) Memory: 1.0039 MB (Peak: 1.1710 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2018-11-14 15:35:28 UTC