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When is a Basement not a Basement? #76066
12/03/00 03:02 AM
12/03/00 03:02 AM
Bill Addiss  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,903
NY, USA
Where is the line between Basement and Living space? Is it the addition of Heat, Carpeting?

For the purposes of GFCI protection, at what point is it no longer needed or required according to code?

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Re: When is a Basement not a Basement? #76067
12/03/00 09:47 AM
12/03/00 09:47 AM
C
cinkerf  Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 84
Pittsburgh, Pennsysvania. ...
Quote
Originally posted by Bill Addiss:
Where is the line between Basement and Living space? Is it the addition of Heat, Carpeting?

For the purposes of GFCI protection, at what point is it no longer needed or required according to code?

Re: When is a Basement not a Basement? #76068
12/03/00 09:51 AM
12/03/00 09:51 AM
Joe Tedesco  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,749
Boston, Massachusetts USA
see 210-8(a)5

[This message has been edited by Joe Tedesco (edited 11-18-2002).]


Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant
Re: When is a Basement not a Basement? #76069
12/03/00 09:57 AM
12/03/00 09:57 AM
C
cinkerf  Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 84
Pittsburgh, Pennsysvania. ...
Quote
Originally posted by cinkerf:


One example where GFCI protection would not be needed is where a little Game Room (Den) might be constructed in one area of a large basement. If that is the case, that particular room must have receptacles installed according to NEC, Article 210.52(A)(1). ie Proper spacing.

Re: When is a Basement not a Basement? #76070
12/03/00 10:06 AM
12/03/00 10:06 AM
Bill Addiss  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,903
NY, USA
Joe,

At what point does a basement- or portion thereof need the required # of receptacles etc. and when does it stop requiring GFCI protection?

I realize that there is probably no code determination on this and I do not have an issue with it. I am just wondering what the consensus is in the Industry. If you put up a couple of walls and put a TV or some toys down there etc is it still a basement? does it need heat to de "Habitable" When., for safety reasons would it stop requiring GFCI protection? (even though rooms adjacent were still unfinished) These areas always seemed "Fuzzy" to me and I just wanted to get other thoughts on these subjects.

Re: When is a Basement not a Basement? #76071
12/03/00 01:37 PM
12/03/00 01:37 PM
Bill Addiss  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,903
NY, USA
cinkerf,

Sorry, I didn't see you sneak in before. You must have posted while I was formulating my last reply. [Linked Image]

There seems to me to be a gray area here, (to me anyway) as to what makes a room in a basement a habitable room and would them require minimum and proper wiring.
If I had a customer that was putting up walls in the basement for some purpose, would I automatically have to provide outlets spaced to code? Suppose He has a specific purpose in mind and a limited budget? Is it the construction or features of the room that make it "finished" or "Habitable" or is it the actual or intended usage?

I also feel that if there is an unfinished area adjacent to this room that it should have GFCI protection on receptacles. (not on lighting though)

Any facts or opinions on this? [Linked Image]

Re: When is a Basement not a Basement? #76072
12/03/00 03:50 PM
12/03/00 03:50 PM
C
cinkerf  Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 84
Pittsburgh, Pennsysvania. ...
Bill, I agree with you. Adjacent areas that are "unfinished in basement" and receptacles are requested by customer should be of the GFCI type.

Re: When is a Basement not a Basement? #76073
12/03/00 05:28 PM
12/03/00 05:28 PM
Bill Addiss  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,903
NY, USA
cinkerf

Quote
Originally posted by cinkerf:
Bill, I agree with you. Adjacent areas that are "unfinished in basement" and receptacles are requested by customer should be of the GFCI type.


What I mean is that in the "Finished" room I like to put GFCI protection if it is adjacent to an unfinished area (especially if it is being used as a play area). I feel if the area adjacent is unfinished it is very likely that the receptacles in the finished room may be used as power in the unfinished area via an extension cord. But I am careful not to include the lighting downstream from the GFCI. (I know this is not required)


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