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#74683 - 02/01/07 12:03 AM New Panel & Full  
JoeMed  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 16
Chino Valley Az. 86323
New Panel and New Home (Condo). The Panel is 20 positions and no remaining openings.
Is there a requirement about only 80% fill or have some openings for additional circuits??
Could not find it in the NEC.

I know it is not a good installation, but is there a code violation?

Thanks in advance

Joe


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#74684 - 02/01/07 12:06 AM Re: New Panel & Full  
BigB  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 719
Tucson, AZ USA
No. But maybe it is a 20/30 or a 20/40? Putting in some twins would free up some space.


#74685 - 02/01/07 12:11 AM Re: New Panel & Full  
DougW  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,143
North Chicago, IL
Many AHJ's around here have a "20% Vacancy" requirement, but it is all "inspector discretion" or spelled out in the local addendums.


#74686 - 02/01/07 12:14 AM Re: New Panel & Full  
JoeMed  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 16
Chino Valley Az. 86323
Thanks for the reply.

yes, this was already done, and there is probably room for additional twin breakers.
But I thought there should be openings in a new install.

Joe


#74687 - 02/01/07 12:16 AM Re: New Panel & Full  
JoeMed  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 16
Chino Valley Az. 86323
"Many AHJ's around here have a "20% Vacancy" requirement, but it is all "inspector discretion" or spelled out in the local addendums."

This was the case in Chicago, but not in Arizona


#74688 - 02/01/07 10:57 AM Re: New Panel & Full  
ShockMe77  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 821
Rahway, New Jersey
Just make sure the panel is rated for twin breakers before putting them in there. Not all panels are rated for twin breakers. The panel legend will indicate if it is permissable or not.

Good luck.


#74689 - 02/01/07 09:22 PM Re: New Panel & Full  
gfretwell  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,123
Estero,Fl,usa
There may be some local guidelines about future expandibility but that is not in the scope of the code. 90.1(B) says "Compliance therewith and proper maintenance will result in an installation that is essentially free from hazard but not necessarily efficient, convenient, or adequate for good service or future expansion of electrical use."


Greg Fretwell

#74690 - 02/01/07 09:26 PM Re: New Panel & Full  
Tiger  Offline
Member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 706
Crystal Lake, IL USA
DougW,

That's a new and absurd one I haven't heard before. What towns?

Dave


#74691 - 02/02/07 12:10 AM Re: New Panel & Full  
DougW  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,143
North Chicago, IL
IIRC a few - Gurnee and Zion come to mind (poss. also Northbrook and Des Plaines).

As an example - Highland Park:
Quote
Article 90 - Introduction (1) Section 90-8 (c) shall be added to read as follows: 172-1
90-8. (c) - Wiring Planning. In new construction, for future expansion, a minimum of ten percent (10%) of the available spaces in a panel shall be provided as spares or blank.


#74692 - 02/02/07 12:11 AM Re: New Panel & Full  
DougW  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,143
North Chicago, IL
IIRC a few - (poss. also Northbrook and Des Plaines).

As an example - Highland Park:
Quote
Article 90 - Introduction (1) Section 90-8 (c) shall be added to read as follows: 172-1
90-8. (c) - Wiring Planning. In new construction, for future expansion, a minimum of ten percent (10%) of the available spaces in a panel shall be provided as spares or blank.


Gurnee:

Quote
Section 230.23(a): At this end of this subsection, the following shall be added: "All residential service revisions shall be a minimum 100 amp with twenty (20) circuit openings and have a main circuit breaker. The service entrance conductors must be a minimum of three (3) #3 copper wire and be installed in a minimum of not less than one and one-quarter inch (1-1/4") conduit. The panel must have 10% of spare space at final inspection.


They have a 15% minimum for commercial, retail, and industrial panels.



[This message has been edited by DougW (edited 02-01-2007).]



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