ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
ShoutChat Box
Recent Posts
Does a 'normal 3ph-AC motor' include capacitors?
by gfretwell - 09/18/19 01:20 AM
Another weird NEC code question on Feeder Taps
by gfretwell - 09/18/19 01:14 AM
NEC 2017_392.22(B)(1)(b)
_What's the smallest width

by Bill Addiss - 09/17/19 07:13 PM
NEC Question_Cord-&-Plug EGC shorter then Neutral
by pcsailor - 09/16/19 05:26 AM
Another NEC 2017 Question_240/24VAC Txfr-Neutral R
by pcsailor - 09/16/19 05:22 AM
New in the Gallery:
What is this for?
Plug terminals
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 3 guests, and 10 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 2 of 2 1 2
Re: Arc Fault #74138 01/14/07 09:56 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 231
R
RobbieD Offline
Member
I agree. I would run seperate circuits.

Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades
Re: Arc Fault #74139 01/15/07 12:29 AM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 214
E
Elviscat Offline
Member
umm, considering that 12-3 costs twice what 12-2 does, I cant imagine 12-2-2 being anything but a huge waste of money, I can't see the labor savings adding up to the extra wire cost, only real use of 12-2-2 that I can see is three phase in commercial

just conjecturin'
-Will

Re: Arc Fault #74140 01/15/07 01:58 AM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 558
C
caselec Offline
Member
I just reviewed our wire prices for 14/2, 14/3 & 14/2/2.

14/3 is 25% more than 14/2. 14/2/2 is 76% more than 14/2. Based on these prices 2 runs of 14/2 will cost 13% more than a single run of 14/2/2 in materials alone. Add the additional to that and I definitely see the savings.

Curt


Curt Swartz
Re: Arc Fault #74141 01/16/07 11:30 AM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 399
A
Alan Nadon Offline
Member
I have seen 12-2-2 used only on one job. It was used as a home run for the Bathroom with a GFI breaker for the receptacle and the other 12/2 for the light.
Don't know about the cost but, it made a neat appearence in the two gang box. Switch and recept.
Alan--
Are the Smoke detectors on the AFCI circuit ? If not, that may be the reason for the seperation.

[This message has been edited by Alan Nadon (edited 01-16-2007).]


Alan--
If it was easy, anyone could do it.
Re: Arc Fault #74142 01/17/07 07:07 PM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 125
S
Sparks30 Offline OP
Member
The 14-2-2 is for only multi circuits. Talk to the inspector finally.

Re: Arc Fault #74143 01/18/07 12:44 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,213
S
SteveFehr Offline
Member
Wouldn't 14-2-2 be subjected to derating and only good for 12A?

Re: Arc Fault #74144 01/18/07 01:02 PM
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 717
M
macmikeman Offline
Member
Originally posted by E57 , quote"Active 1's advice about checking the local codes is a wise idea. Although there in no physical difference electricaly speaking in having 2 circuits in either (2) 12/2 cables, or a single 12/2/2 cable, there may be some other factor. For instance, localy I am required to have all conductors identified by the phase they are on, and not 'technically' the way the local code is written to phase tape them for identification, they need to have the color in the pigment of the insulation. So that means I would either have to get red/white conductor romex, or use 12/2/2. (Or 14/2/2 depending on the circuit.) FYI CH makes a 3-wire AFCI breaker...."

I am only just curious about this local code amendment you are describing. Do they apply this to single phase 240/120 volt residential systems? If so, why? The system is single phase. Both hot conductors are on the same phase.

Re: Arc Fault #74145 01/18/07 01:26 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,876
E
e57 Offline
Member
Quote
I am only just curious about this local code amendment you are describing. Do they apply this to single phase 240/120 volt residential systems? If so, why? The system is single phase. Both hot conductors are on the same phase.


Yes, but not always enforced, the inspectors acually have to remind themselves about it.... And that reminder usually comes in the form of all black phase conductors, or big lumppy gobs of tape on them. Yes, in residential too. As not all residential is the same. Example mid and high-rise buildings are often 3 phase 208, but only using 2 phases, and there are parts of the city that have split delta systems and allowed the high-leg into the buildings (Big old mansions) for elevator use. As well as the many converted industrial areas that al now 'live/work'.... There are also a few 2 phase areas, and even if single phase the 'phases' are of are of additive voltage, so..... I see the point here.

Any this is that code....
Quote
210.5(C). Add the following new section:

(C) Ungrounded Conductors. Underground conductor insulation shall be color coded as follows:

See Section 200.7 for limitations on re- identification of white or gray conductors.

(1) 120/240 volt 3-wire circuits - “A” phase black, “B” phase red; 120/208 volt 4-wire 3-phase wye circuits - “A” phase black, “B” phase red, “C” phase blue; 120/240 volt 3-phase delta circuits - “A” phase black, “B” (high leg) phase purple, “C” phase red; 277/480 volt 4-wire 3-phase wye circuits - “A” phase brown, “B” phase orange, “C” phase yellow; ungrounded conductors for other voltages shall be identified by different color coding, marking tape, tagging, or other approved means.

(2) Conductors for switch legs may be ofa different color than the ungrounded circuit conductor when suitably identified at pull, junction and outlet boxes with marking tape, tagging or other equally effective means. The color green, white or grey shall not be used for identification.

(3) Conductor insulation shall contain the applicable color pigment for circuit wire #14 AWG through #10 AWG. Ungrounded conductors #8 AWG and larger and ungrounded conductors of any size in cable assemblies may be suitably identified at pull, junction and outlet boxes with marking tape, tagging or other equally effective means.

Exception: Extensions of existing non-color- coded wiring systems need not be color coded.


Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason
Re: Arc Fault #74146 01/18/07 03:10 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,392
G
gfretwell Offline
Member
Steve, 4 conductors are subject to derating, but in the 90c column so you are usually OK until you get over 9 (14&12) if 240.4(D) applies.


Greg Fretwell
Page 2 of 2 1 2

Featured:

2020 National Electrical Code
2020 National Electrical
Code (NEC)

* * * * * * *

2017 Master Electrician Exam Preparation Combos
2017 NEC Electrician
Exam Prep Combos:
Master / Journeyman

 

Member Spotlight
RH1
RH1
California
Posts: 22
Joined: August 2009
Show All Member Profiles 
Top Posters(30 Days)
Admin 6
Popular Topics(Views)
258,609 Are you busy
194,195 Re: Forum
183,672 Need opinion
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3