ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
Top Posters(30 Days)
Recent Posts
VFD MotorFeeders
by Yoopersup. 10/17/17 09:50 AM
What do you do?
by gfretwell. 10/17/17 01:08 AM
Good ol' copper pipe in the fuse holder trick
by HotLine1. 10/16/17 07:16 PM
Generator Cable Sizing
by HotLine1. 10/16/17 07:13 PM
Another generator question
by HotLine1. 10/16/17 07:02 PM
New in the Gallery:
Gallery Test
Popular Topics(Views)
241,338 Are you busy
177,289 Re: Forum
168,920 Need opinion
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 34 guests, and 11 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
#73912 - 01/05/07 07:47 PM 120vs240 lighting  
kyelectric  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 64
What is the advantage of using 240v single phase lighting vs. 120v lighting. The wattage is still the same if you use P=IE. On the 240v circuit, the voltage is higher and the current is lower. But, you are still limited to 2000 watts on a 20 amp breaker and 1500 watts on a 15 amp breaker. So you really haven't gained anything. Is there any advantage that I am missing? I am involved in a job where 10 400 watt metal halide lights are going to be hung and we are trying to decide on what voltage to use. Thanks!


Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades

#73913 - 01/05/07 07:49 PM Re: 120vs240 lighting  
Dnkldorf  Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,064
nowhere usa
Higher currents=Higher line losses.


#73914 - 01/05/07 07:52 PM Re: 120vs240 lighting  
iwire  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
North Attleboro, MA USA
The short answer is always use the highest available voltage.

If the choice is between 120 or 240 using 240 will allow twice as many fixtures on one circuit.


Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts

#73915 - 01/05/07 07:53 PM Re: 120vs240 lighting  
ElJay  Offline
Junior Member
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 7
Spartanburg, S.C.
The higher the voltage the more efficient the lights will be.


#73916 - 01/05/07 07:57 PM Re: 120vs240 lighting  
iwire  Offline
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,391
North Attleboro, MA USA
Quote
On the 240v circuit, the voltage is higher and the current is lower. But, you are still limited to 2000 watts on a 20 amp breaker and 1500 watts on a 15 amp breaker.


Wait a minute.

240 x 20 = 4800 watts

120 x 20 = 2400 watts

Hit it with the 80% for continuous load and your looking at 3840 or 1920 watts.


Bob Badger
Construction & Maintenance Electrician
Massachusetts

#73917 - 01/05/07 08:06 PM Re: 120vs240 lighting  
ShockMe77  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 821
Rahway, New Jersey
Plus, if you're doing parking lot lights where the distance of the wire comes into pay, you'll need to consider voltage drop. One way to combat this is by using a higher voltage.

Good discussion here.


#73918 - 01/05/07 08:16 PM Re: 120vs240 lighting  
HotLine1  Offline


Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,872
Brick, NJ USA
OK, Bob caught the math error.

And I MUST say, Ron, you were in class, and paid attention. Good man!!!

10-400 watt MH, with avg ballast loss is approx. 4600 watts. kind of tough to get it on 1 circuit. It's over a tad at 277, would be good at 480, but based on Ky's post he has 120-240 only

John


John

#73919 - 01/05/07 08:29 PM Re: 120vs240 lighting  
ShockMe77  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 821
Rahway, New Jersey
Off-topic, sorry...

You taught us well, John. I impressed a customer of mine the other day by showing him how much he was paying for the lights I installed in his back yard using the technique you taught me. It goes without saying (but I will anyway) that the customer was impressed.


#73920 - 01/05/07 09:15 PM Re: 120vs240 lighting  
HotLine1  Offline


Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,872
Brick, NJ USA
Ron:
Thank you for the compliment; and thank you for using something from the course.

John


John

#73921 - 01/05/07 09:32 PM Re: 120vs240 lighting  
Scott35  Offline

Broom Pusher and
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,708
Anaheim, CA. USA
While the higher Voltages are desired in Lighting Circuitry designing - primarily due to the fact that Lighting Circuits are LOOOOOOONNNNGGGG Distances and lengths,
There are a few things to consider first:

<OL TYPE=1>

[*] Lamp Screwshells having Voltage to Ground,


[*] Running Lighting Loads directly from Photocells.
</OL>

Typically, when driving Lamps &,or Ballasts from L-L Circuitry, the Lamps' Screwshell will have the System's Voltage to Ground -
unless:

* The System is a Corner Grounded Delta, and the Grounded Conductor is used as "Common" to the Lighting Fixtures,

or

* The System is an Ungrounded Delta (then the Voltage to Ground on either side of the Circuit is anyone's guess!!!)

These issues are more along the lines of "Typical Design Issues", but nevertheless are something to ponder.

< Opening Can O' Worms Controversy Per MWBC >

A typical Design strategy I apply when dealing with Parking / Exterior Lighting, and the Project has a 120/240V 1Ø 3 Wire System available, is to design these loads across 3 wire circuits - with the loads as balanced as possible.

Example:
Light Standards (Poles) contain Two Luminaires - each being 250W MH.
2 Circuits to each Pole.

The Voltage Drop on these Circuits will be applied as if the Luminaires are driven at 240 Volts, so it really helps out on long circuit runs.

Each L-N Circuit is designed to carry a maximum of 50% Capacity at 100%, or 1200 VA without LCL (10 Amps).
With an LCL adder, the maximum load values would be 12.5 Amps, or 1500 VA.

The Voltage Drop would "Naturally" be figured at 240 Volts, as long as the loads remain balanced.

So, as a suggestion, you might consider going the Multi Wire Branch Circuit (MWBC) route on these Fixtures.


< Closing Can O' Worms Controversy Per MWBC >

Adding more things to think of!

Scott35


Scott " 35 " Thompson
Just Say NO To Green Eggs And Ham!

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3

Member Spotlight
Scott35
Scott35
Anaheim, CA. USA
Posts: 2,708
Joined: October 2000
Show All Member Profiles 
Featured:

2017 Master Electrician Exam Preparation Combos
2017 NEC Electrician
Exam Prep Combos:
Master / Journeyman

 

Shout Box
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0
Page Time: 0.016s Queries: 15 (0.003s) Memory: 0.8211 MB (Peak: 0.9977 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2017-10-17 15:12:29 UTC